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==Ludwig==
==Ludwig==
[[File:Beethoven.jpg|90px|right]]
[[File:Beethoven.jpg|90px|right]]
Three of today's four OTD items are Germany-related, but none is about the 250th anniversary of Beethoven's birth, which has drawn widespread media [https://www.nytimes.com/article/beethoven-250-birthday-classical-music.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage attention] in recent days. A missed opportunity. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 14:28, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Three of today's four OTD items are Germany-related, but none is about the 250th anniversary of Beethoven's birth, which has drawn widespread media [https://www.nytimes.com/article/beethoven-250-birthday-classical-music.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage attention] in recent days. A missed opportunity. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 14:28, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:Beethoven is the lead item and picture in DYK. We don't feature the same topic twice in different sections of the MP. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 14:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:Beethoven is the lead item and picture in DYK. We don't feature the same topic twice in different sections of the MP. {{direct link|User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: maroon;">Modest Genius</b>}} {{direct link|User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>}} 14:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::There's no collaboration between main page sections, so the fact Beethoven only appears once is a complete fluke. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 14:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::There's no collaboration between main page sections, so the fact Beethoven only appears once is a complete fluke. {{direct link|User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man}} <small>({{direct link|User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;}})</small> 14:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::I didn't say it was deliberate, just meant there was no need for any corrective action. [[User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: maroon;">Modest Genius</b>]] [[User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>]] 14:43, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::I didn't say it was deliberate, just meant there was no need for any corrective action. {{direct link|User:Modest Genius|<b style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: maroon;">Modest Genius</b>}} {{direct link|User_talk:Modest Genius|<sup>talk</sup>}} 14:43, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::Oh, you missed the word "need" in your response then. We often actually "DO" feature the same topic in multiple sections e.g. Apollo 11. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 14:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::Oh, you missed the word "need" in your response then. We often actually "DO" feature the same topic in multiple sections e.g. Apollo 11. {{direct link|User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man}} <small>({{direct link|User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;}})</small> 14:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::The DYK blurb doesn't mention his birthday. Interesting 1812 bust, though. <small>(He died in 1827.)</small> – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 14:45, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::The DYK blurb doesn't mention his birthday. Interesting 1812 bust, though. <small>(He died in 1827.)</small> – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 14:45, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::{{U|Sca}} the OTD blurbs are usually posted around 40 hours into the relevant page prior to the day itself, so if you think something/someone could be added, feel free to do so. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 14:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::{{U|Sca}} the OTD blurbs are usually posted around 40 hours into the relevant page prior to the day itself, so if you think something/someone could be added, feel free to do so. {{direct link|User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man}} <small>({{direct link|User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;}})</small> 14:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::::There has been [[Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#RFC_on_Beethoven_hooks|plenty of effort]] to mark the anniversary at DYK. And [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/December 17|tomorrow's OTD]] is marking his baptism.-- [[User:Pawnkingthree|P-K3]] ([[User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk]]) 14:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::::There has been {{direct link|Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#RFC_on_Beethoven_hooks|plenty of effort}} to mark the anniversary at DYK. And {{direct link|Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/December 17|tomorrow's OTD}} is marking his baptism.-- {{direct link|User:Pawnkingthree|P-K3}} ({{direct link|User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk}}) 14:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
{{od|:::::::}}
{{od|:::::::}}
Oh, good. There's apparently a bit of uncertainty about whether he was born on Dec. 16 or 15, but none about that. It would be good to say that he was born and baptized in [[Bonn, Germany|Bonn]]. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 14:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Oh, good. There's apparently a bit of uncertainty about whether he was born on Dec. 16 or 15, but none about that. It would be good to say that he was born and baptized in {{direct link|Bonn, Germany|Bonn}}. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 14:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


::But '''DANG!''' — The baptism's's merely listed, along with two other anniversaries: "''Ludwig van Beethoven (bapt. 1770) Pierre Paul Émile Roux (b. 1853) Alicia Boole Stott (d. 1940)''." Woefully inadequate. <small> (Who the heck are Roux and Stott compared to '''<big>Beethoven</big>'''?</small>) <br>Don't your realize that LvB is the ultimate megastar of Classical Music? (Would it help if I said Beethoven is the Bob Dylan of Classical Music history?) It's almost as if there were some cabal against featuring this historic anniversary in OTD. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 17:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::But '''DANG!''' — The baptism's's merely listed, along with two other anniversaries: "''Ludwig van Beethoven (bapt. 1770) Pierre Paul Émile Roux (b. 1853) Alicia Boole Stott (d. 1940)''." Woefully inadequate. <small> (Who the heck are Roux and Stott compared to '''<big>Beethoven</big>'''?</small>) <br>Don't your realize that LvB is the ultimate megastar of Classical Music? (Would it help if I said Beethoven is the Bob Dylan of Classical Music history?) It's almost as if there were some cabal against featuring this historic anniversary in OTD. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 17:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::<sub>He's decent, but he's no [[George Frideric Handel|Handel]]....</sub> <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<font color="red">The C of E </font><font color="blue"> God Save the Queen!</font>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<font color="darkblue">talk</font>]])</span> 18:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::<sub>He's decent, but he's no {{direct link|George Frideric Handel|Handel}}....</sub> <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''{{direct link|User:The C of E|<font color="red">The C of E </font><font color="blue"> God Save the Queen!</font>}}''' ({{direct link|User talk:The C of E|<font color="darkblue">talk</font>}})</span> 18:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::<small>No, unlike Handel he was no pyromaniac. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 23:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::::<small>No, unlike Handel he was no pyromaniac. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 23:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::Anyone can contribute to [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries]]. Feel free to join in to help improve diversity and include more interesting anniversaries and observances. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 17:13, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::Anyone can contribute to {{direct link|Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries}}. Feel free to join in to help improve diversity and include more interesting anniversaries and observances. {{direct link|User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man}} <small>({{direct link|User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;}})</small> 17:13, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::But anyone can't change tomorrow's OTD. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 17:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::But anyone can't change tomorrow's OTD. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 17:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::You can raise a suggestion at [[WP:ERRORS]] by all means. I can't see if Beethoven has ever featured on OTD so given such a prominent anniversary it might be good for a blurb instead of just births/deaths/baptisms. And as you say, it's been publicised for a few days now so it's not like the chance hasn't been there to do anything about it. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 17:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::You can raise a suggestion at {{direct link|WP:ERRORS}} by all means. I can't see if Beethoven has ever featured on OTD so given such a prominent anniversary it might be good for a blurb instead of just births/deaths/baptisms. And as you say, it's been publicised for a few days now so it's not like the chance hasn't been there to do anything about it. {{direct link|User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man}} <small>({{direct link|User talk:The Rambling Man|Hands! Face! Space!&#33;!&#33;}})</small> 17:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::::<small>Not an error per se. An omission – or suboptimal placement. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 23:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::::::<small>Not an error per se. An omission – or suboptimal placement. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 23:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::As far as I'm aware, we've never had an OTD item about someone's birth/baptism, where the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself (Beethoven's baptism, although celebrated now due to his fame, was totally insignificant in 1770); the births/deaths line underneath the blurbs can serve this purpose instead. There's no stipulation that the three individuals included must be of roughly equal renown, and I think we're doing a pretty good job of commemorating Beethoven already. — <span style="font-family:'Trajan Pro','Perpetua Titling MT',Perpetua,serif">'''[[User:Ravenpuff|<span style="color:#22254a">RAVEN</span><span style="color:#996e00">PVFF</span>]]'''</span> '''·''' ''[[User talk:Ravenpuff|talk]]'' '''·''' 20:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
:::As far as I'm aware, we've never had an OTD item about someone's birth/baptism, where the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself (Beethoven's baptism, although celebrated now due to his fame, was totally insignificant in 1770); the births/deaths line underneath the blurbs can serve this purpose instead. There's no stipulation that the three individuals included must be of roughly equal renown, and I think we're doing a pretty good job of commemorating Beethoven already. — <span style="font-family:'Trajan Pro','Perpetua Titling MT',Perpetua,serif">'''{{direct link|User:Ravenpuff|<span style="color:#22254a">RAVEN</span><span style="color:#996e00">PVFF</span>}}'''</span> '''·''' ''{{direct link|User talk:Ravenpuff|talk}}'' '''·''' 20:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::You don't think "the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself" – ??? ''Unvorstellbar.'' No Classical composer is more significant than LvB. Obviously, his brilliant and tragic future was unknown at the time of his birth. Doh. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 23:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
::::You don't think "the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself" – ??? ''Unvorstellbar.'' No Classical composer is more significant than LvB. Obviously, his brilliant and tragic future was unknown at the time of his birth. Doh. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 23:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


:::::''PS:'' From German Wiki's OTD, Dec. 17 —
:::::''PS:'' From German Wiki's OTD, Dec. 17 —
::::::'''1770''' – Der deutsche Komponist '''Ludwig van Beethoven''' (3. Sinfonie, ''Fidelio'') wird in '''Bonn''' getauft, wahr­schein­lich wurde er am Vortag geboren.
::::::'''1770''' – Der deutsche Komponist '''Ludwig van Beethoven''' (3. Sinfonie, ''Fidelio'') wird in '''Bonn''' getauft, wahr­schein­lich wurde er am Vortag geboren.
::::::<small>(''Trans:'' The German composer Ludwig van Beethoven (Third Symphony, ''Fidelio'') was baptized in Bonn; he probably was born the previous day.)</small>
::::::<small>(''Trans:'' The German composer Ludwig van Beethoven (Third Symphony, ''Fidelio'') was baptized in Bonn; he probably was born the previous day.)</small>
::::::– [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 14:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::– {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 14:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
*SCA, do you have a actionable solution to your problem, or are you just here to yet again tell unpaid volunteers working in their free time that they are terrible at their unpaid, volunteer jobs? --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 15:14, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
*SCA, do you have a actionable solution to your problem, or are you just here to yet again tell unpaid volunteers working in their free time that they are terrible at their unpaid, volunteer jobs? --{{direct link|User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>}}{{direct link|User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>}} 15:14, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


:::{{U|Jayron32|Jay}} —
:::{{U|Jayron32|Jay}} —
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:::2) The problem is not mine, it is, or was, English Wikipedia's.
:::2) The problem is not mine, it is, or was, English Wikipedia's.
:::3) I made no personal comments, and only addressed the editorial issue as I saw it – in an effort to improve our product. Anyone was, and is, free to disagree with anything I said.
:::3) I made no personal comments, and only addressed the editorial issue as I saw it – in an effort to improve our product. Anyone was, and is, free to disagree with anything I said.
:::4) Your comment above is polemical, snide and insulting. It ignores [[WP:AGF]], [[WP:CIV]], [[WP:NPA]], and is inappropriate for an impartial administrator. ''Please'' desist from casting aspersions at me or other users or maligning our motives. Thank you.
:::4) Your comment above is polemical, snide and insulting. It ignores {{direct link|WP:AGF}}, {{direct link|WP:CIV}}, {{direct link|WP:NPA}}, and is inappropriate for an impartial administrator. ''Please'' desist from casting aspersions at me or other users or maligning our motives. Thank you.
:::– [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 15:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::– {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 15:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::::You still have not provided an actionable solution to the problem. --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 16:00, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::::You still have not provided an actionable solution to the problem. --{{direct link|User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>}}{{direct link|User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>}} 16:00, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::Have you? <br>'Bye. – [[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 17:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::Have you? <br>'Bye. – {{direct link|User:Sca|Sca}} ({{direct link|User talk:Sca|talk}}) 17:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::I didn't, and still don't, find there to be any problem. Why would I need to find a solution? --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 17:54, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::I didn't, and still don't, find there to be any problem. Why would I need to find a solution? --{{direct link|User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>}}{{direct link|User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>}} 17:54, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

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General discussion

Ludwig

Three of today's four OTD items are Germany-related, but none is about the 250th anniversary of Beethoven's birth, which has drawn widespread media attention in recent days. A missed opportunity. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:28, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Beethoven is the lead item and picture in DYK. We don't feature the same topic twice in different sections of the MP. Template:Direct link Template:Direct link 14:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
There's no collaboration between main page sections, so the fact Beethoven only appears once is a complete fluke. Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
I didn't say it was deliberate, just meant there was no need for any corrective action. Template:Direct link Template:Direct link 14:43, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Oh, you missed the word "need" in your response then. We often actually "DO" feature the same topic in multiple sections e.g. Apollo 11. Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
The DYK blurb doesn't mention his birthday. Interesting 1812 bust, though. (He died in 1827.)Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:45, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Sca the OTD blurbs are usually posted around 40 hours into the relevant page prior to the day itself, so if you think something/someone could be added, feel free to do so. Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
There has been Template:Direct link to mark the anniversary at DYK. And Template:Direct link is marking his baptism.-- Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Oh, good. There's apparently a bit of uncertainty about whether he was born on Dec. 16 or 15, but none about that. It would be good to say that he was born and baptized in Template:Direct link. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

But DANG! — The baptism's's merely listed, along with two other anniversaries: "Ludwig van Beethoven (bapt. 1770) Pierre Paul Émile Roux (b. 1853) Alicia Boole Stott (d. 1940)." Woefully inadequate. (Who the heck are Roux and Stott compared to Beethoven?)
Don't your realize that LvB is the ultimate megastar of Classical Music? (Would it help if I said Beethoven is the Bob Dylan of Classical Music history?) It's almost as if there were some cabal against featuring this historic anniversary in OTD. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 17:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
He's decent, but he's no Template:Direct link.... Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 18:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
No, unlike Handel he was no pyromaniac. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 23:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Anyone can contribute to Template:Direct link. Feel free to join in to help improve diversity and include more interesting anniversaries and observances. Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 17:13, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
But anyone can't change tomorrow's OTD. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 17:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
You can raise a suggestion at Template:Direct link by all means. I can't see if Beethoven has ever featured on OTD so given such a prominent anniversary it might be good for a blurb instead of just births/deaths/baptisms. And as you say, it's been publicised for a few days now so it's not like the chance hasn't been there to do anything about it. Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 17:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Not an error per se. An omission – or suboptimal placement. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 23:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware, we've never had an OTD item about someone's birth/baptism, where the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself (Beethoven's baptism, although celebrated now due to his fame, was totally insignificant in 1770); the births/deaths line underneath the blurbs can serve this purpose instead. There's no stipulation that the three individuals included must be of roughly equal renown, and I think we're doing a pretty good job of commemorating Beethoven already. — Template:Direct link · Template:Direct link · 20:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
You don't think "the significance lies with the individual rather than the event itself" – ??? Unvorstellbar. No Classical composer is more significant than LvB. Obviously, his brilliant and tragic future was unknown at the time of his birth. Doh. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 23:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
PS: From German Wiki's OTD, Dec. 17 —
1770 – Der deutsche Komponist Ludwig van Beethoven (3. Sinfonie, Fidelio) wird in Bonn getauft, wahr­schein­lich wurde er am Vortag geboren.
(Trans: The German composer Ludwig van Beethoven (Third Symphony, Fidelio) was baptized in Bonn; he probably was born the previous day.)
Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 14:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • SCA, do you have a actionable solution to your problem, or are you just here to yet again tell unpaid volunteers working in their free time that they are terrible at their unpaid, volunteer jobs? --Template:Direct linkTemplate:Direct link 15:14, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Jay
1) I am an unpaid volunteer.
2) The problem is not mine, it is, or was, English Wikipedia's.
3) I made no personal comments, and only addressed the editorial issue as I saw it – in an effort to improve our product. Anyone was, and is, free to disagree with anything I said.
4) Your comment above is polemical, snide and insulting. It ignores Template:Direct link, Template:Direct link, Template:Direct link, and is inappropriate for an impartial administrator. Please desist from casting aspersions at me or other users or maligning our motives. Thank you.
Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 15:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
You still have not provided an actionable solution to the problem. --Template:Direct linkTemplate:Direct link 16:00, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Have you?
'Bye. – Template:Direct link (Template:Direct link) 17:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
I didn't, and still don't, find there to be any problem. Why would I need to find a solution? --Template:Direct linkTemplate:Direct link 17:54, 17 December 2020 (UTC)