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Google Chrome OS

I wonder why the announcement of Google Chrome OS release has not be covered in WikiNews section of WP frontpage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.175.73.201 (talk) 15:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The same reason why the latest Twilight book didn't make it there? –Howard the Duck 15:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Because it's just an announcement, not a release? I'm not sure ITN even does tech news as a general rule, but I'd be highly surprised if Chrome OS had made it into ITN at this stage. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 15:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Its absurd to compare Google Chrome OS announcement to Twilight book release. It is the very first time Microsofts monopoly over desktop computer OS market is seriously being challenged and WP readers will appreciate being told about this development. But I agree with TFOWR that release of Chrome would be more newsworthy than the mere announcement of its release. talk —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC).

Right, well, go make an article on it with suitable sources, shove it at WP:ITN/C and I'll get back to you. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

But Microsoft's monopoly isn't being challenged. It's just an announcement - nothing has been released. And when/if it is released it'll initially be for netbooks only. Look, I run pretty much every-OS-but-Windows and I'd love to see a serious contender emerge - and when one does it will be notable. But right now all we have is an announcement - vapourware, if you like. Google are great, and I do have every confidence that they'll make good on this attempt, and when they do we should applaud it, but until then it's nothing big in ITN terms. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Not to get all forumy but can I ask a stupid question... don't Apple and Linux make OSes? :/ weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 16:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, quite. And various BSDs too. I guess the idea is that Microsoft have a virtual monopoly (kind of like IE compared to Firefox, Safari, etc) and since Google is huge they'll succeed where Apple have failed (I'll unfairly dismiss Linux and BSD for being tiny ;-) ). And when Google is successful I'll concede the point! But 'til then... vapourware! Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

apple who?!? Ashishg55 (talk) 16:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

These guys ;-) They make computers that run only on love.

I actually came back to acknowledge that 193.175.73.201 did actually respond to my original point, but I managed to miss it - apologies for that! Still, it gives us a good opportunity to make bad puns about the computer industry.

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Such a confusing but WIDE WEB of possibilities opened by the above statement... --candle•wicke 17:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if this wide web of possibilities extends around the world, I would hate to think we where keeping the possibilities for ourselves!Willski72 (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... such a shame this will be buried beneath Gropecunt Lane. --candle•wicke 00:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It might be a newsworthy announcement - when the OS actually comes out. Until then, it's just vaporware. 99.20.114.20 (talk) 01:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

HOax

not sure where to write this, but at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Schmitz_(industrialist) an editor apparently introduced a hoax into article (Hitler was not in power in 1930, the BIS was never a European Central Bank etc.). Maybe there are procedure here at wikipedia to deal with users that introduce incorrect information into articles. I also think that the second paragraph is written in a sensationalist and un-encyclopeadic way —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian.moritz (talk • contribs) 16:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

This is not really the correct place to ask this question. I will move this question to Talk:Hermann Schmitz (industrialist). I have added a refimprove tag as a start to the article and will investigate to see if I can find any information. Please followup any information at Talk:Hermann Schmitz (industrialist). A new name 2008 (talk) 16:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Rhinotia hemistictus is a species in the Belidae family of weevils. The belids are known as "primitive weevils" because they have straight antennae, unlike the "true weevils" or Curculionidae which have elbowed antennae.

no insects on the front page please, some of you are just sick sick people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.24.247 (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

no humans on the front page please, some of you are just sick sick weevils. Yuck, their eyes and the way they poo and pee and they only have two legs and the way they move on them and their "ears" agh I'm being physically sick just saying that word! Blurgh, it makes me vomit they make baby humans with their own bodies and they have fingers too and hair and saliva and breasts get it away before my guts pop out ugh. (common Weevilpedia complaint) --candle•wicke 18:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

We have a nice, non-objectionable street article scheduled for the day after tomorrow. <grin> Raul654 (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Sigh, open the betting... longer or shorter section of comments than Michael Jackson... --candle•wicke 18:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Think it's safe to call it longer at this early stage. --candle•wicke 16:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Good Lord. There will be Hell to pay... J Milburn (talk) 19:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! I sincerely hope that is on, please please please may that be on the front page!!Willski72 (talk) 22:26, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh WOW, I'm looking forward to this one! hilarious! Modest Genius ^talk 03:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought that article was being considered for April Fool's Day. Guess that's being overruled? howcheng {chat} 16:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Parrot of Doom and Malleus Fatuorum (the article's primary contributors) both prefer that article not be run on April Fools' Day. However, Parrot has "volunteered a more suitable article, which hopefully will be FA by that time, in Mary Tofts." —David Levy 17:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I was tempted to join in the discussion of Gropecunt, but I couldn't give a shit...oops, another section banned from colleges. -Michael of Lucan (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

and may I say how nice the insect above is? Not my type, I should stress, but there's certainly something attractive about her. Have you any more pictures of her, maybe posing a little? Michael of Lucan (talk) 01:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Please no images of women on the front page, please, some of us object to the unveiled image of a female human being. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Difficulties

Please friends, I can not find pages related to Michael Jackson, I have difficulty with the issues to be beginner, my address to contact for answers is <removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fbrazill (talk • contribs) 14:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

See Michael Jackson. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 14:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

or indeed Michael Jackson - Michael of Lucan (talk) 00:45, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Or even the article about the singer. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:34, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Norway in Did You Know

Are we going through this whole ordeal again about minute details on Norway being presented as some curious fact that people should know? I think it puts my country in a bad light, and please save the sarcasm. 193.213.19.176 (talk) 01:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This issue would be better raised at Wikipedia talk:Did you know rather than here. The Main Page doesn't have direct control over what facts get put in DYK. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I've copied this thread to WT:DYK#Norway in Did You Know. Please make further comments there, rather than here. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Please, are we going to get this every time we put something related to Norway? :( weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

As a change from Ugandan negotiations' (or whatever the Private Eye term was)? (Linking up with previous subject of discussion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.132.41 (talk) 10:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

For the record, it was Ugandan Discussions, and I love PE too, the most recent addition is another classic. Prokhorovka (talk) 15:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I love reading about Norway - my first real girl friend was Norwegian, and the only genuine blonde I have ever been close to. Yes, dear, I confirm she was genuine blonde all over. So, I want to see more Norwegian articles. My guess for the 3,000,000th article is Norwegian Post Offices 1943 - 1985. I can't wait to be proven right. -Michael of Lucan (talk) 23:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson main page

Please can someone put Michael Jackson on main page. It's the least wikipedia can do for the world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever. --Forsena (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

He was. You missed him. --candle•wicke 18:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

For close to 4 ½ days, to be specific. —David Levy 18:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, after spending 4 and a half days on the main page we thought that people might of got the message....guess not!Willski72 (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson was on the main page for the four days after he died .You can see the way this was reported in the "in the news" section here
Portal:Current events/2009 June 25
Stadt (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This is the moment he made his appearance... --candle•wicke 18:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

And he was knocked off by an exploding train... --candle•wicke 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds painful... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

@ Forsena - note that Wikipedia is not a collection of obituaries, and that Jacko wasn't the only death on June 25 either. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This has absolutely nothing to do with this - actually it might - but is Wikipedia crashing again today? It hasn't been right since he died. I've spent half an hour trying to reply to something elsewhere. And this is the third time I've tried to get this message through. --candle•wicke 20:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Finally!!! It saves! (collapses in tears) --candle•wicke 20:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The European servers were down for a little while, everything had to go through Florida. The secure site was still working fine. J Milburn (talk) 23:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Geez people if you dont understand what i'm talking about don't answer. I was talking about his Featured page should be on the main page. And I really think nobody gives a crap about a Prime Minister from a country they never heard of resigned. Put his featured article on main page please, this is least we can do for him. R.I.P Michael we love you --Forsena (talk) 10:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If that's what you meant, why didn't you say it? I'm assuming the article will be saved for an anniversary- perhaps his birthday, perhaps the anniversary of his death. I imagine the editors of the article will want to work on it somewhat for a while yet anyway- it's changed fairly significantly since his death. J Milburn (talk) 10:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You could propose it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for the ignorance of my fellow editors - when you said "can someone put Michael Jackson on main page" they mistakenly thought you were referring to Main page, and responded (correctly) that Michael Jackson had been on the Main page for some time. In hindsight, we all realise that that assumption was incorrect and we should magically have known you were, in fact, talking about a specific but unstated part of the Main page. The telepathic skills of many Wikipedia editors is sorely lacking. This is being addressed by a top-secret research programme, but in the meantime I ask that you state requests clearly, and not leave us guessing what you really mean. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 10:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Note Requests for assigning an FA to the front page for a certain day go to Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests, not WP:FAC. Regards, Dabomb87 (talk) 18:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I suspect that given that you regularly seem to contribute to Serbia related articles there is a bit of aggressive POV creeping in here (I presume the resignation you were talking about was the PM of Serbia's next door neighbour, Croatia). Your talk page also suggests that you have been involved in edit warring on Eastern European/Balkan/Yugoslav related articles, which furthers my suspicions. As for Michael Jackson, if you want tributes go to a fansite. This is an encyclopaedia and we don't bend the rules just because one person has died. Also, I would point out that per Relativism theory, whilst you feel Jackson's death is notable, others will not, and likewise, whilst you feel the resignation of the Croatian PM is not notable, other will. All we can do is treat them as equally as possible. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

To most people Michael Jackson was just a good singer, most people did not "love" him. That Prime Minister you mentioned had far more power than Michael Jackson (although perphaps not skill) and is far more important in his country.Willski72 (talk) 10:38, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that if Micheal Jackson was so minded and had called for a socialist revolution in Croatia, the Prime Minister would have been pretty powerless to stop it. MickMacNee (talk) 10:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Celebrities have far more power than politicians, especially when comparing the likes of Michael Jackson to the PM of Croatia. Look what a former model achieved against one of the leaders of the free world... J Milburn (talk) 10:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yup. Made Gordon Brown look like a right idiot. Although that's not hard these days. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was Joanna Lumley alone who changed Brown's mind. I'd say the commons defeat he suffered weeks before on the Gurka issue was more important. I'd also state that whilst Jackson may have more power of persuasion, political leaders have more absolute power, but that is an irrelevant point. Jackson has been listed on ITN so unless there is a major development he's not going back on there. All other sections require a defined process to be followed in order to get on the main page - you can't just demand he be put up because you thinks its notable --Daviessimo (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems anyone can make Gordon Brown look like a right idiot at the moment but thats not the point, Michael Jackson doesnt control Nuclear missiles a Navy an airforce and an army, whereas (for better or for worse!) Gordon Brown does.Willski72 (talk) 11:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I think if it was properly advertised then it would be possible for Michael Jackson to make the Featured Article slot on the 1 month anniversary of his death, by shear weight of numbers alone. Go for it Forsena, don't listen to some of the rude people here. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

PS even if Michael Jackson could of set of a socialist revolution in Croatia (which i doubt) it would fizzle out after a few weeks due to lack of sustained support. If he had tried it in the 80s before he made all those rubbish modern songs then things might be different...Willski72 (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

For the most part, month anniversaries don't count for much. A year, or, even better, decade or century, anniversary would be your best bet. J Milburn (talk) 11:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, discussion on whether / when to schedule Michael Jackson as Today's Featured Article is already underway here. Bencherlite^Talk 11:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought I was quite clear when I said Michael Jackson should be on Main Page you don't need telepathic skills to see that there is no words about news of his death (much different than saying news about Michael Jackson's death should be on main page), but unfortunately I wasn't so I'm sorry about that. TFOWR, spare me of your pathetic humor, I don't think it is very nice to make fun of me especially because we're all going through a very hard period because of death of Michael Jackson.Daviessimo you are assuming that I'm a POV aggressive editor because I contribute to Serbia-related articles? Your suspicions are almost as pathetic as his humor is. I was stating the fact that resignation of a PM of a small country most people never heard of isn't more important then the death of the world's best singer who has ten times more fans than of that country's population and who's one album was sold in 110 million copies. If Serbian PM resigned I would say the same. Most of things you said had nothing with MJ, but I will answer anyway, it was not a Balkan-related warring it was reverting destructive and insulting edits of an albanian editor. No, relativism theory doesn't suggest that resignation of a PM that maybe 1% of Wikipedia's visitors have heard of and death of Michael Jackson should be treated equally, if you think so you misunderstood the concept of the theory. Willski72 based on what do you suggest that one pm of a small country has more "power" than Michael Jackson? Only one Michael Jackson's album (Thriller) sold 110 million copies, that's approx 25 times more than the size of the country of that PM. In opinion of most PM you're talking about has no power compared to such an epic man like Michael Jackson. If so he wouldn't resign. Willski72 I doubt that he is more important in Croatia, but even if so, this is not Croatia's Wikipedia but World's wikipedia. I really don't care that you find his songs rubbish just to see his performance once is a proof how epic he was. The fact he got title for best singer and entertainer of the Millenium means much more than your opinion.--Forsena (talk) 17:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh me me me! (what about me, why was I not capitalised?) I'm collecting misunderstandings and allegations of badness and thought I was on a roll - darn it! :D (Note: This is my attempt to outdo TFOWR in the pathetic humour department - how did I do?) Anyway we're all emotional, it's very sad (there's even a section above which references his songs) and we're all having sleepless nights thinking about the suffering of his family. Our nights are divided between crying about Michael Jackson, the capsized sailors, Pakistani soldiers, lost plane passengers, drowning Europeans, blown up train victims... ;( it's been really, really tough on us all lately I can assure you of that. --candle•wicke 18:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure this will appear where I want it to (I have only edited a couple of times)....but what a discussion. Hilarious. I was amazed that Jackson got featured other than a news clip on the date of death. All this affected public grief is ridiculous. Get a grip people, there's genuinely important stuff happening in the world - but this poor messed up kid passing away isn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.165.88 (talk) 15:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Me and TWOFR have just been shot down in flames!! You were lucky to get out of that one alive Candlewicke! To Forsena i didnt say ALL his songs were rubbish, just his modern ones. It seems i underestimated the fanatical support he still has, i now realise that he could of probably pulled off a revolution. When you hear comments like "how epic he was" and "world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever" and "Michael we love you", i now fully believe that many people would take a bullet for him! Nevertheless apart from making anguished fans commit suicide he had no real power over people, he could not raise or lower taxes, declare a state of emergency etc. Cheer up Forsena, at least we didnt mention all those obviously untrue, vile and disgusting claims brought against him over the years.Willski72 (talk) 19:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Wilski I would gladly take more than one bullet for him, I would do anything so he could live again, anything! He was NOT a politician he was a singer how on Earth would he lower taxes or anything like that? He donated millions and millions to help poor children. More than any/most politicians did. --Forsena (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If I was being harsh I could say that he also spent millions on a fairytale home to fiddle with children in, then run into fantastic amounts of debt. But I won't. Oops! Just because you love Michael Jackson doesn't mean that a website you frequent should erect a shrine to the man. Some PM isn't more (or less) important than Jackson to our Main Page - it's just another news story that happened more recently and pushed him off ITN. ITN has a fixed length, every story will eventually be pushed off the bottom of it. We're not going to rewrite some policy for a pop singer, however good/famous. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 20:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

He earned millions of dollars because of his epic songs that are still popular and amazing dancing style. He didn't spend all the money on himself he gave millions and millions to poor people, to many organizations helping poor children. He also performed a lot of concerts for poor children earning no money to himself. But wait you expected him to keep his millions in a bank? What's wrong with a man who earned his money fairly to buy himself a more-than-deserved home? Many celebrities who had less money bought dozens of bigger ranches some even hundreds and weren't criticized and you criticize Michael because of one? I bet you wouldn't live in a small apartment if you had so much money. He was acquitted understand? Acquitted! It was all proven to be lies in which those boys and their parents were to earn money and media cooperated trying to make Michael be the evil guy, Michael wouldn't have hurt a fly, he loved children in fact he was a big child himself with a pure soul, unlike most spoiled celebrities. I wasn't asking anything else but to put his featured article on main page for some time, not because I love him, because he deserves it. The world, the media, his father caused him so much bad things, and still he didn't hate them. I bet most of you who insult him now, tried to imitate Moonwalking when you were little --Forsena (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Careful Vanderdecken! You're mentioning those "obviously untrue, vile and digusting claims" that are guaranteed to wind up the Michael Jackson fanatics to fever pitch!Willski72 (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Vanderdecken, have you no honor? How can you say such lies and nonsense about man who recently died. Even if you hate him can't you show little respect and honor from your side? I learned from him not to hate otherwise I would be answering in much worse language. Because of people like you he was in debts, media talked all the worst untrue BS about him which was later proven to be false. You obviously know nothing about him except what you heard in the media so can you please save that crap for yourself? For God sake even his home you are talking about is named Neverland! --Forsena (talk) 21:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

'we're all going through a very hard period because of death of Michael Jackson' wow, are we? Funny that, I never noticed; seems to me that most people actually don't care, or in many cases would prefer the news coverage to just shut up already. I'm fairly sure that more than 1% of our readers have heard of Croatia. Finally, if you're bizarrely accusing Vanderdecken of only knowing things about him from the media, does that mean you have some personal contact or some other information that wasn't conferred through some form of media? This discussion has gone WAY off topic and does NOT belong on T:MP; take it to WP:TFAR (which I notice you have not bothered to nominate the article at). Modest Genius ^talk 21:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody here hates Michael Jackson, we just dont worship him as a Prophet or demi-god. He had 4 days in the news and there is a discussion on him being put on the featured article. However the proper channels have to be consulted, no man is so great that they are above Wikipedia rules, not even Michael Jackson.Willski72 (talk) 21:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if Wikipedia is the new 'measure' of fame, in as much that if John Lennon was alive today, he'd be saying the Beatles were bigger than Wikipedia --Daviessimo (talk) 22:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I just asked a featured article I asked for little respect but guess that some nerd rules are more important. --Forsena (talk) 11:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

You asked "Please can someone put Michael Jackson on main page." and then when we failed to understand that you actually meant "featured article" you complained "Geez people if you dont understand what i'm talking about don't answer." Respect cuts both ways. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:30, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

More significantly, people explained to you what you had to do if you wanted to get Michael Jackson on TFA. Despite, this, you made NO attempt to contact Raul654 or go thorough the proper subpage. It's unclear if Raul654, who is the only one who could put this as TFA is even aware of this discussion and even if he was, I don't see any reason why he should have listened to someone, who couldn't be bothered to follow a simple system even when it was clearly pointed out to him and instead prefered to do a whole bunch of whining on this page Nil Einne (talk) 13:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I hate him. No, seriously, Willski and Modest Genius are right - some celebrity died, great, but we are not altering Main Page policy just because you like him. His article is not a featured article - work it to FA status, nominate it, get it passed, then get it put on the Main Page. We are not going to fast-track it for you or anyone, so quit your whining. And everybody else, I know this is plain hypocrisy given my last comment here, but enough with the troll-baiting. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 13:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, Michael Jackson is a featured article. Modest Genius ^talk 16:45, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

All the better, now it just has to be nominated and past.Willski72 (talk) 16:49, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I find Zelaya far more interesting than some nutjob singer. I spent several months in Honduras and found the lack of admiration for money hungry weirdos quite comforting. Joy.discovery.invention (talk) 14:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Thriller on July 7

• UPDATE: Thriller (album) is currently now scheduled for July 7.[1] There was concern on WT:TFAR#MJ? to actually post the actual Michael Jackson article on the Main Page because for the next few weeks it technically will not follow the featured article criterion "its content does not change significantly from day to day". So Thriller (album) became a compromise. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a question. Why is the image for the featured article a picture of Michael, as opposed to the actual cover art of Thriller?Tenniru (talk) 02:20, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The album cover is not free. We no longer use non-free images on the main page. —David Levy 02:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Generally, we only use fair-use images on article pages. But Fair-Use images should never be used in any other namespace.  Marlith (Talk)  17:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me that finds this selection massively biased? Oh well... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The overwhelming willpower of Forsena and co mean that we are defenceles in stopping the Michael Jackson wave washing through Wikipedia and destroying all in its wake!!!Willski72 (talk) 09:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I think Willski's actually quite close to the truth here. Unless Thriller was chosen coincidentially, I can't see any policy reason to place this on the main page. Seems to be a case of "consensus" by lots of people wanting something to happen. Not a good thing. J Milburn (talk) 10:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I take that back. I see today is a good date, as it is his funeral today. J Milburn (talk) 10:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

As J Milburn has stated, today's his funeral and this is by no means coincidental, and yes, it's fairly normal to choose articles associated with a person on a day significant to that person (or otherwise associated with a time in some way). This is similar to the way we had two featured articles on last year's American presidential election day, of the two main candidates; and many other similar occurances. There is even a request page for the FA director to consider such requests. Nil Einne (talk) 10:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Coming back to the picture for Thriller article. I know cover is not used because it is a non-free image but why is there a policy to not have a low res non-free fair use image on main page to begin with? As far as i can tell we are still only referring to the context. Main page is technically still not a gallery... which to my understanding is where we can not use a non-free image. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:FAQ/Main Page#Why is a Main Page section missing an illustrative image? might answer your question. Zzyzx11 (talk) 14:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

This just about sums up my feelings on this subject. I bet this isn't the last Jacko story we see on the main page in the coming months! --LookingYourBest (talk) 17:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you require a facial tissue? Wikipedia is not made of paper so I can only offer you the link with which to wipe yourself... --candle•wicke 17:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Alternatively, you can open this image and wipe your eyes across the screen. --candle•wicke 17:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha, sorry, but I take back my "isn't this a bit biased"... first day of the Ashes and we get an English (i.e. not Australian) cricketer... Good luck Aussies? weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

South African, I think?--Wehwalt (talk) 11:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

After reading this, I must say that I don't hate MJ. I hate the people who worship and "love" him 80.123.210.172 (talk) 10:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Pietersen plans for England (including is in this test), even if he was born and grew up in South Africa Nil Einne (talk) 09:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Article about the Main Page

How about an article ABOUT the main page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.146.34 (talk) 04:15, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

homepage? Modest Genius ^talk 04:26, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

It's possible he meant about Wikipedia's main page. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:29, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Or she. --AdamSommerton (talk) 21:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

If it doesn't exist already, I think there should be a section of the Wikipedia article dealing with the functions of the main page. This does not mean to let such a section devolve into subsections like "2009 Wikipedia "Gropecunt Lane" Controversy"...NeutronTaste (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

But we at least need a "Wikipedia Main Page in popular culture" sub-section. --AdamSommerton (talk) 22:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Possible double-standards on what is and is not appropriate for the Main Page

A month or so ago, I nominated Cunt (video game) for DYK. Hook, source, and everything was verified, but was deemed as "inappropriate for the Main Page"; see Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 47#Appropriate for the main page?. Fast forward to today, where Today's Featured Article, Gropecunt Lane is proudly displayed in plain sight for the entire world to view. I am failing to see the difference in appropriateness in the two and think that a double-standard is being applied. Perhaps we should nail down more, across the board, what is and is not appropriate for the Main Page. MuZemike 00:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst I see your point, Gropecunt Lane is rather less explicit - referring to prostitution but not sex acts themselves. That DYK hook sailed rather closer to the wind. Personally, I see no reason not to run both of them, but I can also see why a line might be drawn that ran between them. Modest Genius ^talk 00:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter to me now whether or not the DYK is run, just trying to point this out. MuZemike 00:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) (twice) I viewed that hook and it appeared to be a lot more explicit that Gropecunt Lane which (in my opinion) handles itself with more sensitivity. But that's just me. --candle•wicke 00:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not always consistent - if seven people weigh in on a 50/50 issue, 1% of the time the "vote" will be unanimously for, and 1% of the time it will be unanimously against. The policy is that it isn't censored. But there's something of a glut of DYK's, and we're often seeing objections like "we just had one like that" that don't usually apply in other decisions. There's a great hurry to pick a few out of the crowd for each new day, and sometimes unfair arguments are used. Wnt (talk) 00:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• ... that players in the Flash game Cunt take control of a penis that shoots semen at an enemy vagina?

I fail to see how just because they share one word they are equally inappropriate. The DYK hook was explicit, Gropecunt Lane is not. The word 'cunt' was not the issue, it was how it was used. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 01:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Double that. If you follow the talk archive link MuZemike gave, you can see that the main objection is not to the word "cunt" per se, but to the graphic nature and bawdy subject matter of the article. We even kicked around the idea of using a piped hook that wouldn't have the word "cunt" in it at all, but even that would not have been acceptable. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

While I do not object to having all factually true information available on Wikipedia, there is a question of taste with regard to what is featured on the main page. As mentioned above, you could illustrate the use of words to connote the uses for a street using other examples that do not include, along with a link to its very own page, a word used to disrespect women. Re: double standards: I would object to a featured article that prominently featured a word used to disrespect men as well. (Though the English language does seem to contain few of these words in comparison to the variety of ways to specially insult women.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.14.163.89 (talk) 14:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Or people could just stop being so overly sensitive about absolutely everything. It's a word. It's also the name of a street. We're in the business of spreading knowledge. This article is both factual and interesting. So perhaps people could spend a little more time expanding their knowledge and a little less time crying about things that really don't harm them in any way whatsoever. That's my view of the situation, and this from someone who has a... well, you get the point. لennavecia 18:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Was it really necessary to put this front and center before thousands of child readers?

Please note that Wikipedia is not censored and that there is a content disclaimer before commenting in this thread. You'll likely get the same answer. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 13:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

appears to have been derived as a compound of the words "grope" and "cunt".

They have to learn some time... --candle•wicke 00:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

chances are they already know those words if they are on internet. Ashishg55 (talk) 00:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

(e/c)...and their responsible parents or guardians won't be allowing them unfettered access to a website that parades WP:CENSOR, surely? Or was the IP talking about those poor children without responsible parents or guardians, but who do have internet access? Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 00:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This is what the article was about, really. In an earlier era these words were just words, vulgar (i.e. common) descriptions of body parts and activities. Then people decided that nice gentlemen and ladies didn't talk about these things. Later they decided that they could talk about those things, but they just can't use those specific words. And now people exposed to more linguistic diversity are coming back to the idea that there was never anything wrong with these words. The good news is that if we keep it up, in a few decades your kids won't be able to find a vulgar word on the Internet... because there won't be any word considered vulgar. See you in the Garden of Eden.  ;) Wnt (talk) 00:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Please, think of the fictional children! Sceptre ^(talk) 00:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored ESTEMSHORN^talk_Sign 01:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not. --Allen3 ^talk 01:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not bothered by the children, I'm bothered by my access to wikipedia. My employer (and I'm sure they're not the only one) blocks websites that use profanity. With all the options available for featured article, I'm bemused that "Gropecunt Lane" was chosen. It smacks a little of "look I can use naughty words and you can't stop me."123.208.72.170 (talk) 01:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

ur employer blocks the words grope and cunt... even if they are on wikipedia... u might wanna tell ur employer to find a smarter blocking software or just switch jobs. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately a lot of people find the word "cunt" offensive. I'm not sure that it was a wise choice for the mainpage. It is fair to say that there are people who might consider the word "cunt" to be the most offensive word in our language.

My personal view is it should not appear without a direct request from the user.

I find it disappointing that those responsible have not considered the feelings of others before deciding to publish this article in such a prominent position. I add that I am not offended by it, however I can safely say that in my experience, most people I know would be. 150.101.154.90 (talk) 02:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• I wonder if there is a name for this wikipedia phenomenon where only anonymous IP addresses complain about something being offensive. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It's hardly surprizing: people who go so far as to create accounts on Wikipedia are less likely to be opposed so fundamentally to one of our core policies. Even if they are, most will know that complaining here will not change anything. Algebraist 03:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Cunt and vagina refer to the exact same body part. It's just an accident of lexical history that one is considered inappropriate and the other appropriate. --Nricardo (talk) 04:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst it is a well-written article that is worthy of its place in WP, I am suspicious that its placement on the main page is the result of a prank to exploit WP policies to get the word "cunt" there. We all know that is a word that is going to be regarded as offensive by a lot of readers -- placing it on the main page goes beyond WP:NOTCENSORED and suggests that slavish adherence to policy or making a point about censorship trumps consideration for readers. Duncan Keith (talk) 06:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:AFP - really. Crafty (talk) 06:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Being on the main page is a testament to the amount of work that some contributors have done in order to get this article to featured status. Surely it would be a dis-service to allow hard work to be omitted from the main page merely because some people find the word "cunt" offensive. How can anyone think it is a prank? Someone got this to featured article status and it should have a equal opportunity of being put on the main page as any other FA.Dark verdant (talk) 07:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Duncan Keith. My understanding is that Wikipedia operates, in no small part, upon achieving an agreement. If there were to be a straightforward vote upon whether this is a suitable subject for the Main Page, I would vote NO. Whether it should exist as an article is another matter (it should). When the daily email appeared in my inbox here at work, I involuntarily blushed & deleted it immediately, wondering if it was the work of vandals. I am not a prude, and I find the concept of society's attitudes towards a word quite fascinating, but I do detest this word. I find something altogether immature about using this for TFA, even if it technically satisfies other criteria. Just seems like some fun for a bunch of anarchists. Careful With That Axe, Eugene |Talk 08:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick comment. Wouldn't normally do this. For me, Wikipedia is about learning. I learned something new today that I doubt I would have learned ever in my lifetime if it hadn't been on the Main page. While I was shocked and surprised (although I'm never one to take offense at mere words), I am also extremely grateful. Thank you. GDallimore (Talk) 08:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, at least this has had some benefit :) However, there are plenty FAs that likely will never get onto the main page: 1987 (What the Fuck Is Going On?) is one example. This was a pretty controversial one too, but it's quite amazing how people are so ignorant of WP:CENSOR - it's not like we don't flaunt it. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 09:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I have issues with WP:CENSOR since it is irrelevant in light of the all-pervading principle that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and unhelpful in muddying the waters when people want to include objectionable/offensive but otherwise unencyclopedic content. Maybe one day I'll have the courage to challenge those aspects of the policy I disagree with and objections to articles like this can be a positive "see WP:What Wikipedia is" rather than the negative "see WP:What Wikipedia is not". GDallimore (Talk) 09:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to go back to that point about only people without accounts have complained. Thats because the first reaction of everyone with an account is "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!" and then "This is even funnier than when they had the nudey lady on the front page!!". Personally i think it was a good idea naming the streets occupation, to stop "the children!" wondering down there at night!Willski72 (talk) 08:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm 12 years old, and what is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.152.4 (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Marble cake probably.©Geni 13:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I had imagined, perhaps incorrectly that it didn't matter if one had an account or not to make comment. I feel my comments have been constructive in nature and were made to further debate on the issue. Some of the other comment has been great I must say. If someone feels I'd be better of making my comments as a user please feel free to say why on my talk page. 150.101.154.90 (talk) 09:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I know wikipedia is not censored, but it seems pretty hypocritical that Jenna Jameson has been vetoed from ever appearing on the main page while links to cunt are deemed ok. For that matter, see the featured images Howcheng has vetoed from appearing - is a picture of a defaecating seagull so repulsive but this is not? 82.28.130.10 (talk) 09:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Further down this page there's a comment that a video game called "Cunt" was blocked from appearing in "Did you know?" on the main page. I think there's a reasonable difference between, on the one hand, a pornographic actress (or a provocatively titled videogame) and, on the other hand, a street name from antiquity. I suppose the benchmark I apply might be how I would treat the subject with a 10-year old relative - I'd have no problem discussing "Gropecunt Street" ("a street named after two very old Anglo-Saxon words, which are now considered very rude but back then were simply normal, everyday words"), but I would prefer not to have to discuss Jenna Jameson or "Cunt - the video game in which a penis fires at a vagina".

Picking up on 150.101.154.90's point, IP comments are welcome and I personally don't think you should feel obliged to register a username. I think this debate has highlighted that most regular editors take WP:CENSOR for granted ("everyone knows about it!") but the reality is that many readers are surprised at the things you sometimes find in an encyclopaedia (any encyclopaedia, to be fair - I can remember looking up all kinds of "dirty" stuff in school encyclopaedias many moons ago). There does tend to be some degree of self-censorship when it comes to main page images: there are in-jokes referenced further down this page about insects - these refer to the controversy over a main page image of an insect devouring its mate, if I remember correctly. So I suspect the guano-spreading seagull image was never going to make the main page ;-)

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Some computer systems have crude filers that block certain combinations of letters. This is very inconvenient for the Lincolnshire seaside resort of S****horpe. Peter jackson (talk) 10:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Point of order: said town is nowhere near the sea. Sceptre ^(talk) 13:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Can this please be removed from the front page? This website is an excellent educational tool for children but there's no way i'm allowing mine to access it whilst there are very strong swear words on the front page. Did someone think they were being clever and controversial selecting this as a front page article? Grow up. --Rcclh (talk) 10:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• It is grown up. Read the article. I did and learned things I didn't know before and, as a previous poster has also stated, would not have were this not a featured article. This website is an excellent educational tool for adults, too, and I don't see why I should have what I can learn dictated by others. Bazza (talk) 11:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • Spectacularly missed my point. I didn't say the article wasn't grown-up. The article is quite interesting and educational. I was referring to the selection of it on the front page. --Rcclh (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • • No need to be quite as sarcastic: you missed my point. If excellent articles such as this are not on the front page, how do I know they're there? I don't go looking for information like this - it comes to me via featured articles on the front page. That's what it's there for - to draw people's attention to deserving articles rather than have them tucked away. Bazza (talk) 12:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • • • Come off it, this article is only on the front page because it's got swear words in it. It's like Wikipedia' front page selection committee was taken over by year 9 students for the day. It is an interesting article but not that significant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcclh (talk • contribs) 09:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

• Are you suggesting you allow your children unrestricted access to websites? Any time my (10-year old) niece is online at my house I always surf for her. Having said that, I'd have no problem with her reading this particular article, but then I'd be more than happy to explain what "cunt" meant in Anglo-Saxon times, and it would be a good opportunity to explain that the word's meaning has changed and it is an entirely inappropriate word to use today. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • No i'm not suggesting that, but carry on making baseless assumptions if you want. I would suggest most parents would not want their children seeing or hearing this word. Putting on the front page, knowing it would cause offence is just being controversial for the sake of it. Congratulations on alienating a significant percentage of your readership. --Rcclh (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• • • Which part of my reply do you consider to be a baseless assumption? Is it a baseless assumption to assume that responsible parents/guardians don't allow minors to surf without supervision? Supervision prevents children seeing this. I have no concerns about alienating our readership - those readers who want to learn can continue to do so, and we may just have highlighted some important parenting issues for some (ex-)readers too. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 12:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The baseless assumption was that i allow my children unrestricted access to the web. I'd have thought that was obvious as I didn't say anything of the sort. --Rcclh (talk) 09:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

You said "there's no way i'm allowing mine to access [Wikipedia] whilst there are very strong swear words on the front page". I must be missing something here because I can't see why "very strong swear words" on the front page would prevent the rest of the site being any less educationally valuable than before - if you are monitoring what pages your children view. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 10:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

So i said nothing of the sort then. Thanks. Anyway i've read further down and the user Geofferic has put it in a nutshell ie the article is fine, in general wikipedia shouldn't be censored, but that article was inappropriate for the front page. Someone thought they were being clever and oh so controversial. Next time, just apply common sense.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcclh (talk • contribs)

That's not what I said - I quoted you verbatim, yet remain without an answer. What prevented you allowing your children access to Wikipedia's content - if your children's access was being monitored by a responsible parent or guardian? A fear that the "contamination" on the main page might, by osmosis, leak through to articles while they were being read? Really, I'm struggling to see why the featured article would cause you concern about other content. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 12:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

If Rcclh has a problem he can always take it up with Raul, and where is the evidence for "alienating a signifincant percentage of [our] readership", the page had less than 1,000 views a day, which will increase for three days but Wikipedia is not responsible for the parenting of children, parents are. Darrenhusted (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Bit late now isn't it. You're all missing my point. I never said anywhere it wasn't my responsibility for what my children read. Wikipedia can put what it wants on the front page. But putting obviously offensive articles on the front page for shock value is just childish. It's not big or clever and i now (or rather yesterday) have to stop my children reading it when previously it was educational. --Rcclh (talk) 09:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Ummm, the mainpage gets around 6,000,000 pageviews a day[2]. The TFA gets a large bump: Gropecunt went from 300/day to 200,000 pageviews yesterday, the cricketer Pietersen went from 600/day to 30,000 on its mainpage day. -- Quiddity (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Its seen as "risque", pushing the boundaries into a new dimension, seeing the wild from a new and fresh perspective, and a lot of other modern art crap.Willski72 (talk) 11:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

What is worse is that the IP posted this topic at the top in an attempt to get attention. If you have a problem talk to Raul. Also this is going to be on the front page for the next three days, so I'd get used to it. Darrenhusted (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody cares of course, but I'll just add that I'm offended by it and will not be visiting the front page of Wikipedia again. I'll only Google in to specific pages from here on in. Maybe I'm an old fuddy duddy, but I don't watch modern TV for much the same reasons. There is no reason to put such a thing on the front page of a top 10 in the world web site. It's disgusting. Oh, and the reason I'm posting an 'anonymous' comment is because I see no reason whatsoever to create yet another internet based account to (heretofore) correct spelling mistakes/whatever on Wikipedia pages. If you think it makes my views less important then that's another point against Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.150.13 (talk) 11:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

We will miss you, those two edits you made in January 2007 were such an important part of Wikipedia. But if street names offend then don't go to S****horpe, and nearly every street sign has a **** on it. Darrenhusted (talk) 11:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

@the IP - your views are valued as much as any. Someone has worked incredibly hard to get Gropecunt up to the status it is at the minute, and that achievement has been honoured to the extreme by displaying the article on the main page. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 11:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

what's disgusting? it's not talking about anything offensive. it's historically accurate. 86.139.209.179 (talk) 12:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Those with children should remember that ANYONE can edit Wikipedia. While the front page may be protected, once you click on the article, you're at the mercy of whatever people choose to put into it. It could be filthy, it could be disturbing, it could be a guide to doing something troublesome, and it can include links to a porno site, a virus-infected site, a phishing site, pedophile site, etcetera. If this one word reminds parents that Wikipedia is not a neat little thing under the control of some responsible adult, so much the better. Your kids should be prepared to deal with four letter words long before they are ready to handle the other threats. Wnt (talk) 12:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually if there are bots which will catch those types of links and most outgoing links to pornography sites are already blocked. Darrenhusted (talk) 14:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Innocent children need to know which streets they can and cannot go down, there are now many instances in Britain of quite nice sounding streets being ruled by thugs and chavs etc. If we followed the old custom children would understand not to go down these streets "hmm scumbag avenue, i might pass on going down this street". Its the same with prostitution, to a small child "red light district" seems enticing not offputting.Willski72 (talk) 13:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Using Scunthorpe as an example, we'd have "Handbag Theft Street" (handbag-carriers should avoid), "Mattress Lane" (children should avoid) and "Not Changed In Thirty Years Avenue" (useful for students of recent history). It occurs to me that names could convey dual meanings - for example Glasgow's red light district could contain "Smack Street" - perfect for punters seeking corporal punishment or heroin. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 13:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I use the word cunt. I have no issue with others using it. I do not find it objectionable per se.

However, I don't expect it to be the first word I read when I come here.

I think the decision to place the article on the front page is both unproductive and purile. A bad decision that does Wikipedia no credit. As another contributor has already said, it smacks of "look I can use naughty words and you can't stop me". leaky_caldron (talk) 13:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The way i see it its more of a "wikipedia gives equal merit to all well written articles w/o objectionable content". denying this article to appear on main page just because it has words that some ppl dont like is just pure censoring and nothing else. And it has already been mentioned a 100 times that Wikipedia is NOT CENSORED. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored; when we censor something like the penis/vagina game we call it appropriateness; when we censor something like racial epithets the question doesn't even come up. By the way, tomorrow's featured article is John Calvin; I wonder if he would have us burned to the stake? Art LaPella (talk) 14:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I've read this whole string, and the most offensive thing I've read is that Jenna Jameson has been banned from ever appearing on the main page. Is this true? If it is then it's an outrage! Rreagan007 (talk) 14:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I actually fully agree with Rreagan007. I did not know that there was some ban on Jenna Jameson. Can someone verify that or point to discussion where this ban was made. Because banning a person based on their profession is a absurd. That will just show that wikipedia has something against adult film industry... Ashishg55 (talk) 14:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Jenna Jameson#Jenna Jameson featured? Raul subsequently asked for some feedback on this talk page on the possibility of TFAing it. I have seen nothing more recent. - BanyanTree 22:08, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

There was this comment in November 2008 and this in January 2009. Search for more. Also, it has been suggested that 1987 (What the Fuck Is Going On?) is unlikely to see the mainpage, but nobody has nom'd either of them, afaik. -- Quiddity (talk) 01:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

A couple observations from an ex-newspaper editor whose current job includes listening to and processing sexual-harassment complaints:

• From a linguistic and historical point of view, the article was interesting — I had no idea these slang terms had been around so long in English.

• It's placement as the "lead story" was surprising to me and I'm sure shocking to a significant proportion of readers. For a website that speaks to a very broad, general and multicultural audience, such placement was inappropriate. I am not in favor of censorship, but I do think the information could have been presented in some less prominent way.

• In the U.S., at least, a majority of females would find the word cunt offensive if directed at them. Of course nearly everyone knows of it and its meaning, but it is certainly not a term for polite conversation.

• Gropecunt, the earliest known use of which is in about 1230, appears to have been derived as a compound of the words "grope" and "cunt."

— Ya think?

Sca (talk) 14:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"For a website that speaks to a very broad, general and multicultural audience, such placement was inappropriate." This is exactly the point. We speak to such a broad audience, we can't remove everything that would offend some of them. To quote Steve Hughes- "I'm offended when I see boybands for God's sake. But what am I gonna do? Call the cops?" J Milburn (talk) 14:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I am noticing a pattern from most complainants which is very low mainspace contirbutions and very high talk contributions, if these editors have such concern for the encyclopaedia they may want to contribute to it, rather than talking about contributing, then they will have a better chnace of shaping what happens. As it stands this page is on the front page for 24hrs, then on the previous list for 48hrs, and it's not going anywhere. Darrenhusted (talk) 14:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"For a website that speaks to a very broad, general and multicultural audience, such placement was inappropriate. I am not in favor of censorship, but I do think the information could have been presented in some less prominent way."

The time to make such an objection would have been before the decision was made.

"In the U.S., at least, a majority of females would find the word cunt offensive if directed at them."

So what? GideonF (talk) 14:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, shall we start to make other generalisations? What's going to offend the majority of men in Iran? What's going to offend offend the majority of men in the Vatican City? J Milburn (talk) 14:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I think most English speakers would be offended at being called a cunt. That's why the main page does not, and never will, say "Oy! Reader! You're a cunt!" Algebraist 14:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

When I was a child the first thing I'd do when I found a new encyclopedia was look up "vagina". Presumably today's youth have similar interests and will not tarry long on Vagina Lane when they can go straight to the Real McCoy. --Sean 14:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• There's a problem? Time to get cunnilingus to FA-status; encyclopedia, too. Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Ashishg55 has an excellent point. Think about it - there are literally millions of articles to choose from and the staff of this website SPECIFICALLY CHOSE to put this as the MAIN article obviously showing the world how important it is to flex your first amendment muscles. How crude can we go here people? I'm sure the people deciding to put this as the main article don't have 7-10 yr old children in their family. If so - how would THEY explain to their kids what those definitions are? I'm sorry, but you need to draw the line somewhere, and this article is simply tasteless. I think the national news needs to know about what's going on here. Come on people - grow up.Zul32 (talk) 15:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

There aren't millions of articles to choose from. An article must be a featured article to be on the main page and there are only a little over 2500 of those. Plus, articles that have been on the main page before are no longer eligible, so there are actually less than 2000 articles to choose from. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

OEZ NOEZ! People are using naughty language! On the internet! Sounds like Zul32 is the one with growing up to do. GideonF (talk) 15:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Here we go again...

• The list of articles to choose from is limited to articles good enough to have achieved "featured article" status.
• I'm sure I have no idea whether the person responsible for choosing this particular featured article has 7-10 year old children; speaking as a responsible guardian of a 10-year old I (a) have no problem having her view this particular featured article, and (b) never allow her to surf the Internet unattended. Wikipedia is not a free child-minding service, and isn't censored for the benefit of irresponsible parents.
• What national news? I doubt the Scottish news would be that interested. The English news maybe - "Groupecunt Lane" was a common placename in England.

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 15:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

whoa, my point was never against the article or it being chosen for main page... unless u were being sarcastic (then its ok.) Ashishg55 (talk) 15:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

If Zul32 was being sarcastic then I should apologise - but the same issues are coming up again and again. It's almost as if people aren't bothering to read the responses before posting their "OMG! Won't someone please think of the children!" missives ;-) Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 15:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Come on, it's inappropriate. It's an interesting fact but anyone responsible wouldn't put it up front like this. To do so lowers Wikipedia to the tabloid standards we have to endure in the uk. ---Rodge500 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC).

Think of the children? Rather fallacious, I must say, given that there are much more serious things children are browsing on the internet. At a young age, if they don't know about it, they won't understand it; at an older age, they're bound to know about it, so censorship is like putting a bear trap in a deciduous tree. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 08:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

If you think it is inappropriate then you should take it up with Raul, or even Jimbo. And even a tabloid wouldn't call the "uk". Darrenhusted (talk) 15:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I can't think of any tabloids in the UK that don't asterisk the word cunt. The only newspapers I've ever seen it printed in are broadsheets.GideonF (talk) 15:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• I am one of the biggest supporters of WP:NOTCENSORED but I'd just like to point out that this article rendered Wikipedia unavailable to anyone in our college today (the filtering system scans text and links on the target page) unless they go to the page they want by typing the correct URL in. Given that our Internet provider - who also provides the filtering - serves seven English counties, that's probably a couple of thousand schools and colleges that mostly couldn't use it as a resource today (and of course I can't speak for the rest of the UK, or any other country for that matter). The fact that no-one actually considered this is astounding (and to be honest, pretty incompetent). Black Kite 15:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You may want to take that up with your college, not us. Wikipedia is not your college admin. Darrenhusted (talk) 16:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

...you could refer your college's ISP to Scunthorpe problem which documents this very issue ;-) Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, but that's exactly the point. Just the title wouldn't have triggered the filter (Scunthorpe problem avoidance). However "cunt" was used on its own later in the lead. If that had been in the main article but had been omitted from the main page leader, there wouldn't have been a problem, and that's what I'm amazed no-one thought of. Oh and Darrenhusted, don't you dare fucking patronise me. This is a serious point for what is supposed to be an educational resource. Black Kite 16:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"don't dare"? I already did. And my point is that it is not Wikipedia's problem, it is your college's, take it up with them. Darrenhusted (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Patronising and unable to grasp a point that wouldn't unduly tax a five year old, that's quite a combination. Well done. It is completely Wikipedia's problem in that it didn't consider how putting such an article on the front page might compromise many people's ability to actually read the encyclopedia, which I would have thought was the idea of it, wouldn't you? Black Kite 16:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

BK, take it up over at FA, and talk to Raul. Clearly your college does not trust its students, that is not the fault of Wikipedia, it is an issue for your college admins and your college's students. Nothing can be done here, and whining won't change it. Gropecunt is on the front page for sixty more hours. Darrenhusted (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You go to a college that censors words? I'm glad I never studied there. Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I teach at one, and whilst I'm in no way a supporter of censorship, this isn't censorship - filters that are triggered by keywords are used in pretty much 100% of educational establishments in the UK - in fact we're legally obliged to use them - because otherwise we'd be in serious trouble when parents find out their kids have been surfing porn all day. And surprise surprise, "cunt" is one of those trigger words. Black Kite 16:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

So complain to your service provider, who may be blocking access to an educational site. My access isn't blocked, because I understand the meaning of personal responsibility. Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Myself and 99% of my students understand it as well, but that doesn't mean that we don't have to use the filter, for the reason mentioned above. Anyway, it's a moot point now. School's out for the day, and the link will have vanished tomorrow ("Gropecunt" will still be there, but as I said above, since the link to cunt will have vansihed there won't be a problem). Black Kite 16:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• Lets not turn this into some street fight... and again WP is not Censored so censoring a word (that is simply descirbing the aricle) so wikipedia does not get blocked will probably never be accepted. That is same as deleting articles about democracy so china doesnt block wikipedia. Ashishg55 (talk) 16:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
  • It's not the article title itself that's triggering educational filters, it's the link to cunt later in the lead. Without that, there wouldn't be a problem. Black Kite 16:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
    • Again, why is it a WP problem. The project is working just fine. Your complaint should be to your ISP. They're the ones preventing you, an adult, reading things on the Internet. --WebHamster 16:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
      • OK, since this page appears to have turned into St.Gropecunt's Home For The Terminally Unable To Grasp The Point, I think I'll give up. Black Kite 16:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
        • Oh the irony. --WebHamster 16:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
      • You are saying that by having cunt on the front page then your college won't let your students view the front page of Wikipedia today. We are saying, not our problem. Wikipedia (and those in it) cannot be concerned that your college may not allow your students to view certain pages because they have naughty words on. Your college needs to find a better way to filter its pages, it is not our concern how your college stops your students looking at porn, but if the only method they have is blocking the letters c-u-n-t in that order then they need to find a better way. It is not our concern. Darrenhusted (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Should we refrain from using the word 'democracy' in case that triggers filters in, say, China? It is not Wikipedia's job to ensure that its content passes your filters. Modest Genius ^talk 17:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The concerns here are pretty silly given that a high proportion of visiting kids look up "naughty" articles on here anyway. Just check out the top 100 searches. And this isn't even a "naughty" article. Cunt is a very offensive word to many but we are not censored and the article has historical significance. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I've yet to see anyone explain what actual harm could come to a child upon reading the word "cunt" in this academic sense. Especially as they can simultaneously learn the etymology (also learn what etymology means) of that word. So can someone please explain to a father of two girls what the actual harm is when caused by this word (or any word for that matter)? --WebHamster 12:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Arbitrary edit break

Would you people kindly calm down? Running an article on a historic curiosity does not mean the main page has become Page Three. Come on.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I’m amused that I’m being painted as favoring censorship. I actually have posted at my work station the text of the First Amendment (which, by the way, applies to laws limiting “publication” in its various forms; public speech by individuals is another matter).

I was trying to inject a calm voice of reason. What’s so threatening to free expression in suggesting different placement of a text that some, perhaps many, people undoubtedly will find offensive and off-putting?

Again, personally I found the article interesting, but I think it’s placement was someone’s idea of how to grab attention. And it is entertaining to see how people bring differing views with such vehemence to an issue like this. Chill.

Sca (talk) 16:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You should really take that up over at TFA and talk to Raul. Darrenhusted (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just wondering about how many of the closed-minded complainants also wrote to the FCC complaining about Ms Jackson's nipple?

All I can see is lots of people deliberately looking to be offended. I wonder what the statistics are for the number of people killed or maimed because of the use of "Gropecunt Lane" on the main page, or even how many minors have become irretrievably damaged mentally by seeing a 'swear' word. Grow up people. It's just a word. In this case an interesting one. Sheesh. --WebHamster 16:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought I'd replied to your previous post, above, but it turns out I didn't so I'll repeat the broad thrust (ooh er!) here. Amongst all the "won't someone please think of the children!" posts there are a few that raise serious issues in a thoughtful way - yours was one of them. Except the part about how the compound phrase evolved - that caused a coffee-keyboard-impact-issue... but that's another matter entirely ;-)

In particular I thought your point about placement was well made: I happen to disagree, but mainly because I can't yet think of a way to advertise excellent articles like this without placing them "front and centre". Black Kite touches on a related aspect of this - ISPs crudely filtering based on "cunt". I think these ISPs deserve brickbats, but it's something we as a community should be aware ISPs will do badly - and we should plan accordingly. Maybe something replacing the featured article's "teaser text" with something reading "Today's featured article contains material that may offend. It has been chosen on the basis of interest and educational value, but some readers may find some of the content offensive." Just thinking aloud here, how we could handle similar featured articles in the future...

Anyway... this issue seems to polarise people more than it should. I don't consider you an evil-wielder-of-the-blue-pencil, any more than I'd consider myself a corrupter-of-youth ;-)

Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, this issue would be very complicated, if it weren't for one particular guideline called Wikipedia:Profanity (which someone already mentioned soon into this discussion). You don't even need to read past the first paragraph, which is as follows:

Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available. Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not. (This is also found at the last paragraph of WP:CENSORED.)

Is it then too farfetched to extrapolate this guideline to the Main Page, and realize that this article should not have been used as a Featured Article since there are almost 2000(?) Nominated Article alternatives? When I saw this article on the front page, I wasn't offended myself, but I thought "I'm sure there'll be a whole bunch of people who will be offended by this!". Considering the Profanity guideline, shouldn't the admins have thought the same thing, that someone out of the "typical Wikipedia readers" would be offended? I myself do not agree with censoring of this type (particularly denying featuring Jenna Jameson's article when it's a high quality article worthy of being featured), but it's an official guideline, so admins should follow it. Right? Kreachure (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is too farfetched. The guideline applies to articles in and of themselves only. The main page is not an article. Even if it did apply, by removing the link we are making the main page less informative.--WaltCip (talk) 16:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, there aren't any guidelines specific to the Main Page, so what do you suggest the admins follow, then? In fact, the Main Page is probably the most important page in Wikipedia (per visitor count and whatnot), so the guidelines already existing should apply especially to the Main Page! The admins should know by now to be particularly careful with the Main Page, so why shouldn't they use already existing and relevant guidelines for it? I don't see any other viablr choice until actual Main Page-specific guidelines are made. And obviously, if you removed the Gropecunt article, it would be so it's replaced by another featured article, not so the Main Page is left blank and "less informative"... -_-; Kreachure (talk)

As for educational filters, I did a DYK hook a while back that contained the word "shit" as part of a quotation (by Nixon, if you are wondering). Not a single complaint that filters were seizing up. The article, Checkers speech ran as TFA about a month ago, complete with obscenity (though not in the main page blurb).--Wehwalt (talk) 16:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This isn't an issue of censorship, but of common sense selection of how you want your public face to be seen. There is nothing wrong with the articles on the female anatomy - but would a picture of the clitoris really be a front page item? Really? This article is inappropriate for the place it has been posted - not for its content or value. Wikipedia's editors should be chastised for not thinking clearly. --Geofferic (talk) 16:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactly correct --Rcclh (talk) 12:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Brilliant idea. Call up Jimbo Wales and see if you can swing him to your side. Good effin luck.--WaltCip (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

See that's a strawman right there. No one is suggesting that Clitoris be on the front page, but if it was an FA then you would have to make a very good case to keep it off, and "please think of the children" is not a good enough reason. Darrenhusted (talk) 17:14, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Let's be clear. This is not be about WP:Censorship. The article is fine. Not putting it up as an FA would not have constituted censorship in any way. But making it an FA does treat the Wikipedia:Reasonability Rule with contempt. leaky_caldron (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"Not putting it up", as you put it, might not have constitued censorship; but excluding it, once it had been put forward as a candidate, on the basis of taste and decency would. Removing it, once already in place, would constitute censoship and cowardice. 94.193.241.76 (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This article went through WP:FAC just like any other FA. The community had every opportunity to look at it, comment, and even oppose. It passed.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Couple points:

1. I suspect that when Black Kite mentions their "college" they're talking about a secondary school, not a third-level college as Americans would assume.
2. The discussion about featured article is separate from the discussion about putting on the main page. I don't actually see any debate about the latter either on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Gropecunt Lane/archive1 or in the archive of WP:TFAR between making FA on May 19 and Raul scheduling on 24 June. Where is it? jnestorius^(talk) 20:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

jnestorius^(talk) 20:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

There wasn't one at TFA/R, this was a selection directly by Raul. A very good one, IMHO.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Strange that no one's commented* on my suggestion that it could have been presented in a less prominent manner. Here's a thought: An article about pictaresque English street names, in which Gropecunt Lane would have appeared farther down in the text, after what in the U.S. newspaper biz is called "the jump" — the continuation of the story on another page. The "hook" in this case could have been some other pictaresque street name -- maybe Threadneedle Street — ?

_____

• Perhaps all the Brits have gone to bed at this pt?

Sca (talk) 21:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the thought Please understand that the Featured Article of the Day comes from the 2,500 or so Featured Articles which Wikipedia has, minus the about 1,500 which have already appeared on the main page. We do not have such an article as you suggest, and they are not written "to spec". Thanks for the idea, though.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

• Now that that filth is off the main page, I feel like I can say this...Thank you to all who participated in this debate for entertaining me for nearly an entire afternoon. To those defending the choice of Gropecunt Lane for FA, you are true crusaders of the free dissemination of accurate and thoughtful information, some of the few people in this world who are really trying to use the internet's power to make this world a better place (no sarcasm). To those who feel that it was a poor choice of FA, I understand some of your concerns, but I have never for a moment believed that Wikipedia should consider the sensibilities of any reader or group of readers to outweigh the gravity of its mission. With that in mind, we should always expect that articles pertaining to human sexuality and possibly vulgar language are going to crop up on the main page from time to time. We should celebrate the diverse wealth of information Wikipedians have access to and not argue over what is and what is not appropriate. Arbitrary morality makes for closed-minded individuals. In the end, I would gladly explain to my 9-year-old what "gropecunt lane" is all about, and the words that constitute its name. Teachingg children these things in the proper context gives them a great perspective; you shouldn't be uncomfortable discussing sex with your kids. I would actually be less comfortable having to explain the Jedwabne Pogrom to my children then some silly street in England known for prostitution. Why do people always complain about even the most tangentially sex-related articles but not the violence-related ones (Military history, etc.). Holocaust-related articles could be construed as offensive to some people's sensibilities, but no one complains about that. It's such a double standard. Millions died during the Holocaust, just like millions "died" (in the shakespearean sense) on Gropecunt Lane. Why are Americans so puritanical? Just read and learn, and enjoy! Life's to short for such bickering...Antimatter--talk-- 01:29, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

How dare you be so sensible. I'm offended by your post, and I'm going to make an official complaint. I should not have to read such eloquent and well-considered thought so early in the morning! Parrot of Doom (talk) 08:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

And if there were a 'Click here for "adult"/medical/peculiar political subject/other topics which generate much discussion on the Main Page Talk Page ane which are likely to cause much discussion between curious children and their parents or get entangled with institutional blocking policies' with a 'Yes I am over 18' filter button, the discussions would still arise - and every child would investigate when parents are not looking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.132.41 (talk) 08:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Wanted: an easy to remember bypass URL

I do believe that institutions of ostensibly "higher" education need to be broken of the stupid idea of blocking pages because they include some objected word. Nonetheless, Wikipedia exists to be helpful, and however much moral self-satisfaction we might be tempted to enjoy when colleges block their students from accessing Wikipedia on account of something stupid, the mission of the organization urges a conciliatory solution. Therefore, I ask that the Wikipedia site administrators set up a domain name, http://search.wikipedia.org, which redirects to http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=&fulltext=Search. This allows people searching for articles in the English Wikipedia to use an easy to remember name to get past any content objections to the Main Page. It also would allow those of us who consult or edit the encyclopedia to avoid bogging down the server with so many page reloads. (For other languages, use translations of the word "search") Wnt (talk) 17:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.wikipedia.org has a search bar and is unlikely to be blocked. Algebraist 17:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I stand corrected! The things we forget over the years... Wnt (talk) 23:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Slightly different issue

Just to bring about a slightly different objection to those posed so far, since June 29, we've had as TFA a British sitcom, a British military operation, English castle, an English queen consort, Scottish wildlife, an English international sportsman, and an English street name. So seven of the previous nine TFAs have revolved around the UK. I'm sure it's unintentional, but it is a bit excessive. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking ahead, there's a fair break between the next UK-based TFA (Talyllyn Railway next week). Still, might be worth avoiding too many more this month. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Pietersen's South African. Anne was Danish. Pastry?--Wehwalt (talk) 16:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Nonetheless, Pietersen's famous for being on the English international cricket team, Anne is famous for being queen consort to James I of England. It's hardly a stretch to call either "UK-related". GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Seriously though, please feel free to bring up your concerns at TFA/R. This is not the right place for them.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I don't see that anyone has requested an English article for the rest of the month, and Raul tends to shift things around.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just surprised that wiki admin chose to put this article there. They knew it was going to evoke a response and debate at the very least. I thought one of the principles of wikipedia is that it's an encylopedia, not a soapbox or debate hall. Sandman30s (talk) 20:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Britian and england have rather a lot of well documented history. It is not unexpected that a fair number of featured articles result.©Geni 20:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not taking issue with England/UK articles being promoted to Featured status, nor with them appearing on the Main Page (I'm British myself, so I'm more than happy to see such good coverage!), it's just that I'd rather see them spread out over a longer period of time, rather than a "British week" once a year or so :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 20:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Did you know that cunt, queen and gynecologist all derive from the same root word? Maybe we should ban all of them, too. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Fascinating! Really? Do you have a link or is this WP:OR? (Not sarcasm) Careful With That Axe, Eugene ^Talk 08:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

This is a bit of maze on Wiktionary, but Proto-Indo-European *gʷḗn seems to lead to Proto-Germanic *kwēni- (“‘woman, wife’”) -> Old English cwen -> Middle English quene -> Modern English queen and *gʷḗn -> Ancient Greek γυνή (gynē), “‘woman’”), + -λογία (-logia), “‘-logy, study’”) -> Modern English gynecology. There does not appear to be a direct link to cunt from *gʷḗn. The root word is listed as Proto-Germanic *kunton, with the root "ku" meaning "hollow place." The proposed connection between cunt and Latin cunnus, which may be from *gʷḗn, seems to be disputed by many linguists. - BanyanTree 11:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

What about Norway? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.132.41 (talk) 08:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Some people's inability to understand that WPs refusal to make moral judgements on the topics of its articles extends even to things that they, persaonly, find objectionable amuses me every time it comes up. When I saw this article had been on the front page, I just knew that this talk page would be an entertaining read. Thanks. 72.10.110.109 (talk) 13:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think you need to reread the contributions. Nobody has suggested that the article be removed from WP, but several people have questioned the judgement of the administrator who made the decision to place it on the main page. TFA articles are not randomly selected and the decision to place this article on the main page was a result of a judgement by a human being who indicated that they had considered the likely consequences, and hence was a moral judgement. The suspicion remains that this was done to make the point that WP:NOTCENSORED is an ideological imperative rather than a pragmatic measure to avoid content disputes. Duncan Keith (talk) 20:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm quite certain that the article wasn't selected to make a point, but it's true that we shouldn't allow the threat of ideological controversy to dictate our site's content (including that of the main page). This was a case of "despite," not "because of." —David Levy 20:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't selecting TFA's for their content rather than their quality and variety be a "moral judgement" of precisely the sort that 72.10 was making fun of? Why do you assume that everyone that disagrees with you must have somehow misunderstood your point? APL (talk) 23:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)