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@User:Morbidthoughts A basic level of literacy on matters of Native American identity isn't a tall order, and knowing that DNA tests don't reliably determine Indigeneity claims is the most basic of basic details. I would be shocked if you didn't already know this. It is baseless, and frankly weird, to classify someone as a person "of Native American descent" based solely on the self-reported results of a DNA test. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 06:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Morbidthoughts The category "American people of Native American descent" for this article cannot stand. That's just insulting to Native Americans. Please remove it. If you do not, we go to ARBCOM. When it comes to this level of racism, there really has to be a line drawn in the sand. This is not okay. This is an intolerable level of distortion of Native American identity. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 07:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am sympathetic to the impact this can cause to the Native communities but Wikipedia is a reflection of what reliable sources explicitly say. Any introduction of self-identification into the article text or category is original research without explicit support from independent RS. Morbidthoughts (talk) 08:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really feel strongly about this because categories are really only of interest to other editors not readers. However I don't think the concept that someone can have Native American ancestry without identifying as Native American is racist or insulting to Native Americans. As the category description states, it is intended for "Americans who have proof of Native American ancestry but are not members of any Native American tribes". If there's an issue with this system of categorisation as a whole then take it to WP:CfD. It seems like a double standard to include Oprah in Category:American people of Kpelle descent but in a Native American descent category, given both are derived from the same DNA test. Threats of taking people to ARBCOM for a single revert are also unhelpful and unnecessary. ITBF💬08:18, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like WP:SYN to cite an article that does not discuss Winfrey to interpret what the results about Winfrey was actually indicating. Even the Carey article doesn't really discuss Indigenous people outside of North America and saying that those larger groups (North v. South v. Central (?)) can't be distinguished from each other seems to contradict the Genetic history of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas article. Morbidthoughts (talk) 03:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I'm misreading "Observed is a decreasing genetic diversity as geographic distance from the Bering Strait occurs" to where "There is a relative lack of differentiation between Mesoamerican and Andean populations" and "The authors also provided evidence that the basal northern and southern Indigenous American branches, to which all other Indigenous peoples belong, diverged around 16,000 years ago." in that you can differentiate Indigenous from North America (U.S, Canada, and Mexico) from those Central and South America. Morbidthoughts (talk) 16:35, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those quotes point to a "lack of differentiation," so stating that one cannot differentiate (the point that I am making). But more to the point, a DNA test cannot differentiate between Ojibwe people from Canada and Ojibwe people from the United States or between Cocopah people from the United States and Cocopah people from Mexico. Yuchitown (talk) 17:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the question is whether DNA tests can differentiate Indigenous people from North America versus anything south of that? I don't have any issue with the broader Americas link but am unclear if that's what Gates meant since the Daedalus article didn't make that clarification either. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose per WP:MONONYM, and because the evidence here seems mostly to be just headlinese. (In many of the articles that the nom cites, the short "Oprah" is used in headlines but the longer "Oprah Winfrey" is used on first reference in the text.) ╠╣uw[talk]14:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Done Thank you Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 18:21, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 (talk) 20:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)