Talk:War in Donbas

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Section sizes

Section size for War in Donbas (53 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	29,535	29,535
Background	6,862	11,096
Protests	4,234	4,234
Proxy war	2,974	143,606
Militants seize towns	3,070	18,607
Sloviansk	5,281	5,281
Kramatorsk	1,561	1,561
Horlivka	3,636	3,636
Other settlements	5,059	5,059
Government counter-offensive: "the Anti-Terrorist Operation"	28,347	28,347
May 2014: post-referendum fighting	13,125	17,009
Airport battle and fighting in Luhansk	3,884	3,884
Escalation in May and June 2014	1,502	23,230
Luhansk border post siege	1,453	1,453
2 June Luhansk airstrike	2,876	2,876
Continued fighting	4,233	4,233
Russian tank incursion	7,154	7,154
Ilyushin Il-76 shoot-down	1,190	1,190
Battle of Yampil	4,822	4,822
July 2014: post-ceasefire government offensive	12,158	12,158
Fighting worsens in eastern Donetsk Oblast	4,768	4,768
Downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17	4,308	4,308
Government push into Donetsk and Luhansk cities	32,205	32,205
Open war between Russia and Ukraine	131	128,559
August 2014 invasion by Russian forces	26,812	26,812
September 2014 ceasefire	13,274	13,274
November 2014 separatist elections and aftermath	10,978	10,978
Escalation in January 2015	18,428	18,428
Minsk II ceasefire and denouement	13,387	13,387
January 2017 eruption of heavy fighting and failed ceasefires	21,958	21,958
October 2019 Steinmeier formula agreement and July 2020 ceasefire	7,592	7,592
2021–2022 escalation	14,191	14,191
2022 full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine	1,808	1,808
Combatants	18	27,288
List of combatants	157	157
Russian involvement	25,183	25,183
Military aid to Ukraine	1,930	1,930
Casualties	728	11,841
Civilians	1,929	1,929
Ukrainian forces	1,553	1,553
Separatist forces	7,631	7,631
Humanitarian concerns	8,446	14,624
Displaced population	6,178	6,178
Reactions	16	19,430
Ukrainian public opinion	4,916	4,916
Russia	1,605	1,605
International reactions	413	413
Labelling of the conflict	12,480	12,480
See also	263	263
Notes	26	26
References	30	30
Further reading	661	661
External links	1,992	1,992
Total	388,951	388,951

International Coalition in support of Ukraine was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 February 2018 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into War in Donbas. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of War in Donbass was copied or moved into Frozen conflict with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, War in Donbas → War in Donbas (2014–2022), Moved, 5 June 2022, discussion
RM, War in Donbas (2014–2022) → War in Donbas, Moved, 17 October 2023, discussion

Infobox end date

What's the precedent for a war being subsumed by another war? When there's a battle, there's start and end dates, and you can implicitly tell its part of a larger war, but titling an article "War in <location>" and having an end date in that infobox seems to suggest the "war" ended, when it didn't actually end, that phase of the war was eclipsed by the much larger invasion. Also, I don't think the "Major combat operations phase ended on 20 February 2015" is very relevant, there was sporadic levels of fighting all throughout 2014-2022. MarkiPoli (talk) 19:25, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The solution is straightforward: remove the end date and specify that the conflict was followed by the Russian invasion. EpicAdventurer (talk) 14:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea: I don't know why the "subsumed" thing was totally removed from the article, as if nothing of particular importance happened in 2022. And as for the conflict subsumption: the recent examples include the various ethnic conflicts in Myanmar (Karen , Kachin etc) being subsumed by a all-country Civil war with a new major and largely non-ethnic actor People's Defence Forces. Similar thing happened to ethnic conflicts in Sudan with the inception of 2023 Civil war. These conflicts didn't end, but their context changed markedly. Gorgedweller (talk) 12:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed it again to keep the end date but include the explanatory note that the term "War in Donbas" generally only covers events up to the start of the invasion. I've also removed "Major combat operations phase ended", as this seems redundant now. </MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont /> 13:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2024

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Add something like "pro goverment partisans" to the ukranian side on the "units involved" list in the infobox. ^[1]

This are Ukrainian sources and they attribute it to a government entity (RNBO), a member of Rada and a member of Aidar battalion. Considering that almost 10 years have passed since then, I'd suggest to look for a confirmation in more reliable and less biased sources.

Also I would suggest adding information to the article itself first and if it becomes apparent that it was happening on a large scale it can be added to the infobox. Alaexis_¿question? 20:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Borodai in the lede

I'm not sure his words about 50k Russian citizens are lede-worthy. Borodai, as a direct participant, is essentially a primary source and Euromaidan simply repeats his assertions without any analysis.

The topic itself - how many Russian citizens participated in the war is important and I'm not against discussing it in the lede. However we should provide a summary of high-quality secondary sources. We have quite a few of them already. Alaexis_¿question? 22:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Composed in large part of Russian citizens

@Alaexis, @Nihlus1, regarding source request [1] , this The Palgrave Handbook of Contemporary Geopolitics - Google Books p. 154 says In reality, the conflict was fought between, on one side, Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Russian Ukrainians having national allegiance to Ukraine against, on the opposing side, a minority of Ukrainians with massive Kremlin support having primary allegiance to Russia (Kuzio, 2020, pp. 106–133).

Crisis in Russian Studies? Nationalism (Imperialism), Racism and War – E-International Relations p. 119 It cannot be true, as Sakwa (2017a) writes, that Russia sought to extricate itself from the Donbas at the same time as it built up a huge army and military arsenal controlled by GRU (Russian military intelligence) officers and 5,000 Russian occupation troops based in the DNR and LNR. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 01:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article now makes a very specific claim, that the forces that seized government buildings composed in large part of Russian citizens crossing the border into Ukraine. I wouldn't be too surprised if it were true, but the sources you've brought up here make different claims. They talk about the conflict in general rather than about the initial unrest. They also don't say anything about the Russian citizens being a large part of the separatist forces, whether in the beginning or subsequently. Alaexis_¿question? 20:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.5.ua/86/v-okupovanykh-raionakh-donbasu-rozhortaietsia-ukrainskyi-partyzanskyi-rukh-rnbo-63891.html ; https://www.5.ua/86/na-lyganshini-chastishaut-boj-teroristiv-mij-sobou-i-z-partizanami-66591.html; https://novynarnia.com/2020/09/07/volodymyr-zhemchugov/ ; Ukranian Language wikipedia on the subject of resistance during the conflict talks about this aswel but i cant copy the link here for some reason.

[1] ttps://www.5.ua/86/v-okupovanykh-raionakh-donbasu-rozhortaietsia-ukrainskyi-partyzanskyi-rukh-rnbo-63891.html ; https://www.5.ua/86/na-lyganshini-chastishaut-boj-teroristiv-mij-sobou-i-z-partizanami-66591.html; https://novynarnia.com/2020/09/07/volodymyr-zhemchugov/ ; Ukranian Language wikipedia on the subject of resistance during the conflict talks about this aswel but i cant copy the link here for some reason.

[1]