Talk:Arkham

You should update in the cabinet of curiosities it has an episode (#5) based on Arkham Massachusetts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:196:4A02:BD40:18F6:AD2:CD80:8E90 (talk) 00:21, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Model for Arkham

The real-life model for Arkham seems to be, in fact, Salem [Massachusetts]

Several Lovecraft scholars have claimed to the contrary that Providence, Rhode Island, was the model for Arkham (and that Brown was the model for Miskatonic University). I believe that S.T. Joshi is among them. If you Google "arkham providence" you will pull a list including literally dozens of websites also claiming that Providence was the model for Arkham (although none cite the source of this allegation). That said, I cannot immediately provide a specific attributable citation supporting Providence, but the Salem statement given above is — if not false — inaccurate and misleading. Canonblack 22:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• When I first came across this article, it cited no sources to substantiate any of the claims it made. Since then, I've made great strides in providing reliable sources for the information given. With regard to the location of Arkham, I did include a footnote giving different views on this matter. It is also worth nothing that in the "Arkham" entry in The H. P. Lovecraft Encyclopedia, Joshi and Schultz came to no firm conclusions about the place that Arkham is based upon (though the footnote in the article does quote from Lovecraft who infers that Arkham is based on Salem).
  
  As far as "google searches" are concerned (and speaking solely for myself!), I would give the results about as much weight as I would a bag of wet field mice (though the sack of waterlogged rodents could probably make a stronger case as far as I'm concerned). Yes, I'm being flippant (don't take me too seriously). I suppose the point I'm making is that the internet, as it stands now, is not the respository of human knowledge that it purports itself to be (or would like to be seen as). After all, it's only been around for a little more than a decade, whereas published books, journals, etc. have been around since the dawn of recorded history (wow that's deep). Hence, there is far more critically- and peer-reviewed published material out there (i.e., physical books) than there is on the net. That's not to say there are not reliable sources on the internet (for example, some of S. T. Joshi's writings are on the net). The upshot is that not everything on the net can be trusted (especially if the source fails to cite verifiable sources or comes from an unaccredited author). And there are also tautological problems—namely, misinformation propagated from site to site so that an alleged fact generates a lot of hits. I would recommend finding a published source (professional publishers are usually very careful about what they put into print—their reputation is on the line after all) that supports your point of view; that way, no one can accuse you of violating WP:NOR. (A good source on Lovecraftiana would probably be Joshi's massive biography on H. P. Lovecraft: H. P. Lovecraft: A Life, West Warwick, RI: Necronomicon Press; 2004; ISBN 0-940884-88.)
  -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 00:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• When I read the article, the text was slightly different. Check the history of the article for details. What I added was, specifically, a cite from August Derleth that pointed to Salem as model for Arkham. As you may imagine, Derleth's opinions have a high weight when speaking about Lovecraft. Anyway, I will describe where to find the cite so that you can judge whether or not it may be true. To put things into context, Derleth is explaining why he chose "Arkham House" as the name for his publishing house:
  
  "There was never any question about the name of our publishing house. ‘Arkham House’ suggested itself at once, since it was Lovecraft’s own well-known, widely-used place-name for legend-haunted Salem, Massachusetts, in his remarkable fiction; it seemed to us that this was fitting and that Lovecraft himself would have approved it enthusiastically".
  
  I really don't know where you may find this cite published. However, it may be read at Arkham House's homepage, in the section about the house itself[[1]].
  
  Now, whether or not to give it credit is a different story. Personally, I think that reading it in the homepage of the publishing house founded by Derleth makes it believable.
  
  PS: I have found a small note giving references for the cites on the page:
  Twenty Years of Arkham House© 1959 by August Derleth
  Thirty Years of Arkham House © 1970 by August Derleth
  
  If you can have access to these books, the aforementioned cite should be in one of these two. Maybe the best way will be to check "Sixty Years of Arkham House", by S.T. Joshi, which reprints August Derleth’s essay on the first thirty years of Arkham House. ISBN 0870541765. Charles Dexter Ward 01:58, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Update. I added your citation to the Reference section. Thank you! Since Arkham House is an established publisher, I think its web site (especially since it talks about itself) is virtually irrefutable. Moreover, it cites references about itself, so don't think we have to worry too much about reliability in this case. (And since you listed those citations in your comments, that should cover the bases quite nicely in case someone wants to go look it up.)
    
    BTW, You may wonder why I moved your quote to the Notes section. My rationale is that trivial information (let me be careful here!--when I say trivial, I do not mean unimportant; I simply mean information that would be of little interest to the casual reader) belongs there so that it does not impede the natural flow of the article. In the interest of getting to the point, I think (IMHO) that it is important to strip away as much of the minor details as possible and get to the main points. The average reader, with only a passing interest in the subject, probably has never heard of August Derleth anyway, so his comments would carry little weight (on the other hand, he is mentioned in the introduction!). However, to a Lovecraft fan, these trivial pieces of information are like gold nuggests (or easter eggs?); hence, their inclusion in a separate notes section is a good place for this sort of stuff.
    
    Also, some of my comments about the net may have sounded somewhat gruff. I don't want to completely exclude the internet as a source of information; in fact, Wikipedia does allow—and even recognize—web sites to be reliable sources, provided of course their information is credible.
    -,-~^R'lyehRising~-,- 14:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Don't worry about being bold, it is the only way to progress efficiently, IMHO. When some text is first inserted, as it was the case, it may seem that the best place to put it is in the meat of the article, due to it being an important part of information in that context. When someone comes and reads the new content, the context he perceives is different, and probably more accurate. So any changes made with good intentions and reasons are usually welcome. I agree with you and think the article is now more readable. Keep up the good work. Charles Dexter Ward 14:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Derleth is known for making up his own interpretations for many things concerning Lovecraft, so I wouldn't trust his opinions. Of course I'm sure Wikipedia likes him since he is a quotable source, but just saying... Also, I don't think if it's important, but I think Arkham at least doesn't 'replace' the real Providence in Lovercraft's world, since Providence and Brown University are mentioned in some of the stories alongside Arkham and Miskatonic. So Arkham is not intended to be the same place even if it's influenced by it. 85.157.76.57 (talk) 12:12, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

The map, streets and location near the river makes it likely that Haverhill (Bradford) Massachusetts is the location he uses. North of Salem and looks like Bradford college. Definitely hills around too such as ward hill etc SurgeonRT (talk) 18:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Not to forget his girlfriend attended what was Bradford College. A place he visited.

https://www.mvmag.net/2016/10/30/dead-but-dreaming/ SurgeonRT (talk) 18:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Another thing that relates it to Bradford college is that of Esther Forbes. Who was an author and had books in his library and used her name as a character SurgeonRT (talk) 19:09, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

House of Mystery#263

This story takes place in Arkham, Massachusetts.

````Enda80

Batman/Sandman

• The Arkham Asylum seen in The Sandman is the same as the one in Batman. Removed the Sandman entry and changed the Batman one to cover the DC Universe rather than that specific series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mister Six (talk • contribs) 16:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Is there any significance to the asylum in the DC universe being Arkham? An asylum for only super-powered psychotics?202.220.169.71 (talk) 09:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I wonder if some of the references being added are based on the article's topic, or just similarly named. Eleven even (talk) 02:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Many of the uses under "Other appearances" have questionable links to Lovecraft's fiction, and some of them would also fail the criteria of notability. The Arkham (disambiguation) article exists, and should be used to contain the notable entries. This section should be trimmed considerably, or purged entirely as it's redundant to the disambig page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Historical/Geographical facts?

Does Lovecraft ever mention year of establishment, population, or such for Arkham? --Monstrim (talk) 00:01, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced lists

The appearances section goes on at great length without citing any third party reliable sources. At best it's original research based on the interpretations of Wikipedia editors looking at various art and music. Needs to be deleted soon unless someone can cite sources. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Seconding, two years late. It's an example farm clotted with trivia, weak and irrelevant examples, poor grammar and spelling. It's now larger than the rest of the article. Remove it all, lock the article. That's the only way to prevent the fancruft dump. 12.233.147.42 (talk) 00:45, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Songs "Arkham Asylum" and "Escaping Arkham"

The songs "Arkham Asylum" (Ryan Adams) and "Escaping Arkham" (by Common Market) are listed on this page as if they are related to the subject of this article, Lovecraft's fictional town in Massachusetts. However, I would argue that they refer to the psychiatric prison called 'Arkham Asylum' from the Batman world. Arkham Asylum itself is rightly named on this page, since its name is apparently a reference to Lovecraft's fictional city. But since these two songs refer to the Batman location and not (directly) to the Lovecraft one, I would argue that they should be listed as references in the Arkham Asylum article instead.

Further info:

• In Arkham Asylum, Ryan Adams sings: "And Arkham Asylum has walls to keep us safe // Life just ain't designed to prevent every mistake // And every lock has its key and nobody ever really sleeps.", so I think it's pretty clear that he is referring to the psychiatric prison rather than to the fictional town.
• The lyrics to "Escaping Arkham" are a bit more cryptical, but after a quick Google search the lyrics and video appear to refer to the banking economy and their questionable (supposedly criminal?) actions in recent history. This, together with the word "escaping" in the title, seems to refer rather to a prison than to Lovecraft's fictional town. Also, somehow I think it's more likely that a hiphop group would take references from the world of Batman, than from Lovecraft. I'm not a 100% sure on this one though, maybe someone also has any clever thoughts.

Greetings, RagingR2 (talk) 09:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

UPDATE: Also, arguably some references to the DC Comics / Batman world could be removed from this article, in the light of redundancy. For instance, the games Arkham Asylum/City/Origins are now mentioned both under Comics and under Games. I think this is both redundant AND wrongly suggests that these games refer directly to Lovecraft, while (as is the case with the two songs mentioned above) they refer to the location in the DC Comics universe instead. Then there is another reference to Arkham Asylum under film/television, and then another one under See Also. I think it would be sufficient to have one mention of the fact that Arkham Asylum is inspired on Lovecraft, and remove all other references to the Arkham Asylum article. You could place the mention in this article under the category Comics, since Batman is originally a comic character, AND since Arkham Asylum was also first mentioned in a (1974) comic. Greetings, RagingR2 (talk) 09:46, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

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Why everything centres on Arkham

It strikes me as strange that so many different weird things in this universe seem to cluster in or around Arkham that seem to be completely unrelated. Is this a massive coincidence, is there a reason for this, or is it assumed that everywhere is pretty much like Arkham and that the stories just happen to focus on Arkham for no reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.61.180.106 (talk) 18:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Why I removed the map of Lovecraft Country

I wasn't enthusiastic about doing it. It's very well-done and inspired by a genuine regard for Lovecraft's art. But he, out of respect for living people, didn't locate his fiction in a spot correlating to real life. The vast majority of Lovecraft fans are good people with the decency and common sense not to scour the real places they imagine Lovecraft's works to be set. But there's also a movement to do just the opposite and the last thing people who move in and through these spaces need is a pack of fantasy-inspired randos popping out of the shrubbery. Clearly, removing this map won't stop said randos, but Wikipedia's mission is not to encourage them. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 04:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)