Talk:Ernest W. Adams
 | This article was nominated for deletion on 6 November 2021. The result of the discussion was redirect. |
 | Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams on Game Design was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 30 December 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Ernest W. Adams. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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[edit]He seems notable enough in the computer gaming lands. I hesitated to create this only because I think gaming is over-represented in Wikipedia.sinneed (talk) 15:55, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Like Resume
[edit]I added the "Like Resume" tag - it seems the article simply reflects Adams self-written bio on Gamasutra, which does not strike me as a reliable source (it might be if he did not write it himself). He might be notable as the founder of IGDA, but that needs some additional reference. Oberono (talk) 16:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
- Obviously since I created it, I don't agree.
- Key terms in the flag you added are "neutral" and "encyclopedic".
- How is it not neutral? His notability is in writing games. No comment on whether they are good bad or indifferent.
- How is it not encyclopedic? His notability is in writing games.
- Beyond "more sources" - great, knock yourself out, what changes need to be made? And... wp:Be Bold.- sinneed (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
- OK... on review, I can't support those changes. If you feel IHOBO isn't an appropriate source under wp:SELFPUB, please feel free to take it up at the appropriate notice board, or at least explain here. The notability is all for commercial software development work... the citation and content seem appropriate.- sinneed (talk) 17:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Ernest Adams is not a game-designer:
[edit]I don't think Ernest Adams has earned the right to call himself a "game designer" yet. He has never designed a computer game that actually came to market. The two games he worked on as designer were both cancelled.
Dungeon Keeper 3 was cancelled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Keeper_3
He has worked as an audio-producer. He has published some articles on game-design, but he has never actually designed a game that came to market.
I believe the title "Game Designer" should be removed from his bio page, to avoid misleading people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.172.41 (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The foregoing is false for several reasons. First, a game designer is someone who designs games, whether or not they are sold on the open market, are made for private consumption, are cancelled in progress, or anything else. I am a game designer because I design games; if we apply the standard given above, Van Gogh was not a painter. Second, I was the lead designer on John Madden Football for the 3DO Multiplayer, which was indeed published.
I have not added material to my own page in an effort to aggrandize myself, but I do claim the credit to which I am entitled, and I object to efforts to diminish my work by anonymous persons. I assert my moral right to credit for work that I have done. EWAdams (talk) 01:23, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
On the contrary, a *notable* game designer is someone who *other people* acknowledge and respect for their game designs. Comparing yourself to Vincent van Gogh is deeply inappropriate: van Gogh is widely respected as a genius. Further, you were not the lead designer on the sequel you mention in the early 90s: you were an audio producer.
I don't claim to be a "notable game designer" but to have been a game designer on a particular title. My being an audio producer on a sequel has nothing to do with having been a game designer on an earlier game. EWAdams (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Ernest Adams is not a reasonable judge of his own notability
[edit]For some time, there has been a question mark about whether Ernest Adams counts as sufficiently notable to be included here in Wikipedia. A number of contributors have separately raised this question.
However, I note that Ernest Adams *himself* recently removed the notability tag from this page. (To be clear: the notability tag was removed by anonymous user 86.7.215.214 - but this IP address happens to come from the exact town where Ernest Adams himself lives in the UK).
I do not believe that Ernest Adams should himself be modifying his own wikipedia entry in this way. It does not seem that this is what Wikipedia was created for. So I am going to reinsert the notability tag.
If other contributors believe that Ernest Adams is sufficiently notable, could they make clear *what exactly* he is notable *for*? Is it "interactive storytelling"? (Has he ever produced anything *notable* in this area?) Is it for "game design"? (Again, has he ever designed a game that was notable?)
Anonymous, unsourced opinion is not acceptable on biographies of living persons
[edit]Nor are changes that violate the rights of the subject. EWAdams (talk) 16:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Ernest Adams is not the International Game Developers' Association.
[edit]Redirecting his page from him to the IGDA's page does not make any sense. 104.244.156.159 (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- Hi 104.244, and welcome to Wikipedia. We do not keep articles that lack significant coverage in multiple reliable, independent sources. (?) The redirect to IGDA is not because Adams is the IGDA but because there are not enough secondary sources to run an article on the individual, but those interested in the individual might be interested in the organization for which he is best known. czar 17:39, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
COI tag (November 2021)
[edit]EWAdams has made many contributions to the page Swil999 (talk) 05:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
As someone that is influenced by EWAdams and an AR Artist, I don't think this is right to mark it for deletion. svanloon (talk) 19:18, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@Svanloon: You're commenting in the wrong place. Comments in support/against deletion should be included in the AFD page. Please provide 3 independent sources showing notability if you can. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ernest_W._Adams Swil999 (talk) 18:34, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Sources
[edit]Although the discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ernest W. Adams ended in Redirection, I believe that the subject here will eventually be notable. (As I !voted weak keep in that discussion, it is possible to tell that I already believe him to be notable; as the article has been a target of COI editing and meat-puppetry, it might however be better to redirect it for the time being.) Meanwhile, I wish to list here some sources that I uncovered while working towards improving the article, and which may be helpful for an eventual article. Some of these sources I had not yet put into the article.
The subject has a solid citation record on Google Scholar, mostly for three books. As these appear to be textbooks, reviews are mostly absent; there are two reviews of the book with Rollings [1][2]. The textbooks are published by a Pearson Education imprint. Casual googling suggests that the books have been adopted by a reasonable number of courses, but this is difficult to quantify. I think there is an WP:NPROF case here, with C4 being possibly the best fit.
As far as other notability criteria: The subject helped found the International Game Developers Association. This is covered on the homepage of the IGDA [3], also in an Escapist article [4]. A source that I had not yet put into the article is the Encyclopedia of Video Games [5], which covers the subject for helping establish both the IDGA as well as the Game Developers Conference.
The subject's column with Gamasutra appears to have had some impact. Indeed, the New York Times Magazine thought his Dogma 2001 column was notable enough to be the subject of an interview [6]. Sources that I had not yet put in the article: "Bad Designer, No Twinkie" series has been covered by Kotaku [7] and Engadget [8]. Indeed, Engadget has covered Adams' opinion pieces on other occasions [9][10], and Kotaku has fairly substantive coverage in an article about Barbie as Rapunzel [11]. Ars Technica has also covered Adams' column on at least one occasion [12]. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 16:52, 15 November 2021 (UTC)