Talk:First Hellenic Republic

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Move

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved Dpmuk (talk) 00:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First Hellenic Republic → Hellenic State — The official name was Hellenic State. Peeperman (talk) 17:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Oppose This is a misunderstanding of the English equivalents for Greek Politeia. Politeia here is correctly (and IIRC normally) translated Republic, as it is in Republic (Plato) - the same word. Whether the Greek Republic ever had the sort of stable constitutionalism associated with the ideal republic is a different question - the same may be asked of the First Chinese, Mexican, and French Republics, after all. Greek usage here (even if it were decisive, which it cannot be; the English distinction here is finer) is secondary to English; this remains the English Wikipedia. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:21, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "Πολιτεία" can be used for any state, not just a democratic republic (in the modern sense), hence it can be rendered as "state". In this case, it was deliberately used to avoid any connotations of δημοκρατία, which would have scared the Powers, and to highlight the transitional nature of the regime, since a king would eventually be chosen. Nevertheless, the proper and established historiographic term is "First Hellenic Republic", which covers both the period of the revolutionary provisional governments (1822-1828) and the Kapodistrian Πολιτεία (1828-1832). Constantine ✍ 09:47, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Agree with above users Septentrionalis and Constantine. In a very similar way to the aforementioned First Chinese, Mexican or French Republics, this Πολιτεία was certainly never described by this term in its own time, but 1°) it was definitely an organised State with a government, albeit unstable 2°) it was certainly not a Monarchy and 3°) it needs distinction from the Second and Third Hellenic Republics. The current name is therefore the best one. I note that we also call the Επτάνησος Πολιτεία the Septinsular Republic. Place Clichy (talk) 17:12, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "Hellenic State" would cause confusion with the Hellenic State (1941–1944), the collaborationist government of World War II. Dimadick (talk) 07:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Hellenic State - check the content as edited today - was the name of the Greek state after the time period of the First Hellenic Republic and indeed the name used under German occupation (1941–1944). --FocalPoint (talk) 11:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Comment someone should determine what sort of disambiguation should be implemented for Hellenic State and Hellenic Republic ... shouldn't "Hellenic State" redirect to Greece ? After all, it is the current hellenic state. 65.94.69.242 (talk) 11:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. "Hellenic Republic" is the official name of Greece, whilst "Hellenic State" is almost never used except - and then rarely - for the collaborationist governments of WW2. When the state needs to be evoked, "Greek state" (uncapitalized) is used. Constantine ✍ 16:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See Hellenic State for details as edited today. --FocalPoint (talk) 11:32, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Delete

Why did you deleted so much? I mean only proluge remained. There should be more info for the first republic. I just cant understand why someone deleted all this part. As a greek i can say that this is a great mistake. The article was very short, i edited with only importand information but you deleted. i cant understand why. Explain that to me. I see no reason to not have full info in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christos200 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article refers to the term "First Hellenic Republic". It does not refer to the history of the Greek War of Independence. All the text that Dr.K. removed, can be found in its correct place there, in the article named Greek War of Independence. --FocalPoint (talk) 15:06, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and categorization

The term "First Hellenic Republic" is a scarcely used term to describe the period before the Monarchy, not a state. It was not an entity. It is just a historiographic term (actually not used very much anyway). It was not a state.

The infobox and categorization create misunderstandings:

infobox: This infobox refers to former states. This is wrong. The term describes a time period, not a state.
Former countries in the Balkans: The First Hellenic Republic was not a state. It is the name of a time period during which there was a revolution and a provisional administration (1822–1828) and then a state called the Hellenic State (1828–1832)
States and territories established in 1822: No state was established in 1822
States and territories disestablished in 1832: The entity disestablished in 1832 was the Hellenic State (1828–1832)
Former republics: This was not a state, therefore this category is irrelevant
1822 establishments in Greece: There was no entity as such to be either established or disestablished
1832 disestablishments in Greece: There was no entity as such to be either established or disestablished

I therefore propose removal of the infobox and above categories (while the category: Provisional governments is correct). --FocalPoint (talk) 08:24, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are quite right. I think we must remove infobox and change intoduction D.S. Lioness (talk) 18:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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