Talk:Ghazi Muhammad

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[Untitled]

added the following sources to support claims that were made in the article SalpiB (talk) 23:07, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

References

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Ghazi Muhammad.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ghazi Muhammad/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Revolution Saga (talk · contribs) 02:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 02:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Comments

• Perhaps nahiya could be linked to Nahiyah.
• Why is Gimra mentioned in brackets?
• Introduce Dagestan as a region divided into khanates, kingdoms (and autonomous village communities?) bordering the expansionist Russian Empire/within the Russian Empire (?).
• According to the Avar-language chronicle... Is it a (nearly) contemporaneous source? If yes, specify this. Otherwise, specify the period when it was written (..late/early-19th-century Avar-language chronicle...)
• Consider linking (Amina) to Amina, and (Fatima) to Fatima (given name).
• Perhaps alim cold be linked to Ulama.
• ...the holy war (ghazavat)... Was ghazavat indeed a holy war, or a war against non-Muslims. If it was a holy war, specify that this is an Islamic holy war, or alternatively mention somewhere in the previous sentences that he was a Muslim.
• Shorten Hasanilaw al-Gimrawi to Hasanilaw or al-Gimrawi, Jamal al-Din al-Ghazi-Ghumuqi to Jamal al-Din and Muhammad al-Yaraghi to al-Yaraghi when they are mentioned for the second, third, ... time.
• Was the Gidatl confederation also a confederation of Avar villages?
• ...whose ancestors lived... Why not past perfect?
• Where was Urada located? (for instance, near the Dagestani town of .../near his native village/not far from his family home/...)
• ...they were considered "rootless." By whom?
• ...the famous Dagestani Islamic... Change the adjective (for instance, "eminent/locally well-known/respected...")
  • I think the adjective "well-known" is also problematic. For instance, I have never heard of him, and I guess there have been billions of people who have no knowledge of him either.
• Where was Karanay located?
• ...the famous sheikhs of the Naqshbandi Sufi order... Change the adjective, or alternatively, delete it and introduce the order.
• A footnote about the role of sheikhs in the order?
• ...he is said to have initially been suspicious of... By whom?
• He also brought his close friend and distant relative by marriage Shamil, the future imam of Dagestan, to meet his teacher. Rephrase. I guess you want to say: "He introduced ... Shamil to his teacher."
• ...to some sources... Reliable/unreliable? Contemporaneous/later/early or late-19th-century? Some examples in a footnote?
  • It's the two sources cited after "against the Russians" in that sentence. Both modern, 20th/21st-century
    • Then name their authors to be specific.
• ...(exegesis of the Quran)... I would change to "(interpretation of/commentary on the Quran)".
• ...lives of the Prophet Muhammad... I would change to "early medieval/medieval biographies of the Prophet Muhammad".
• Ghazi Muhammad then began his career... Be more specific when (...after concluding his studies/...)
• ...the local communities... Local or nearby?
• Link adat and urf.
• ...(adat or urf)... Indeed or, or and?
  • Kemper uses them as synonyms, can't say I know more details than that
• ...who died c. 1717 Why not past perfect?
• In 1826/7, he succeeded in getting the inhabitants of Gimry to accept sharia. Rephrase, because I assume sharia had already been accepted, but a paralel system of laws existed as well. (For instance, "In 1826/7, he persuaded the villagers of Gimry to abandon to cite customary law instead of sharia.")
• ...he also introduced sharia... I would say, "he also secured the full/exclusive application of sharia..."
• Consider linking "alcohol consumption" to Khamr, "usury" to Riba, and "for women" to Women in Islam, because I am not sure that all our readers understand the context without a link.
• He also had murderers punished or forced to pay blood money instead of being exiled. Context? (For instance, "...instead of being exiled in accordance with traditional cusomary law")
• As his reputation grew... Why not present continuous?
  • To my ear, "As his reputation was growing, he was invited" would imply less of a connection between the two action, while "As his reputation grew, he was invited..." implies that the second clause is a consequence of the first, which I think is indeed the case per the original source.
• ...he was invited by many khanates and kingdoms loyal, indifferent, and hostile to the Tsar Did he was invited by or to khanates and kingdoms? Where were these polities located (I assume in Dagestan)? Some examples? I would explain the last part in a separate sentence. I would clarify that we are talking about the Tsar of Russia.
  • Not specified in the source, but I will look for somethign from another source.
• Introduce Moshe Gammer, Vladimir Bobrovnikov
• According to Moshe Gammer,...According to Vladimir Bobrovnikov,... Rephrase to avoid repetition
• ...Ghazi Muhammad attributed the refusal of local rulers to accept his call to sharia to Russian influence... Rephrase. (Perhaps, "...Ghazi Muhammad attributed the local rulers' resistance to introduce his proposals to Russian influence...")
• ...to accept sharia... Perhaps "to strictly adhere to sharia"?
• ...he declared the beginning of the holy war... Why not "he declared the holy war"?
• ...his former teacher...his closest friend and follower...his murshid Delete.
• Link murid.
• Link Chechnya.
• ...his center of power Where?
• ...the Chechen rebellion that had occurred in 1825-26... A link?
  • Doesn't exist as far as I can tell
• ...to protect Hindal from Aghach Qala (Chumkeskent) I do not understand: Aghach Qala is a settlement. Why do we need the name in brackets?
  • It's an alternative name found in one of the sources, but I will remove it for clarity's sake
    • I assume that he wanted to protect Hindal against raiders from/the hostile villagers of/... Agach Qala.
      • No, it means they are taking up positions in Agach Qala to defend Hindal. I will reword for clarity's sake.
• ...was driven back to Aghach Qala... Did he occupy it?
• Was Fort Vnezapnaya a Russian fort?
• ... followed by General Emmanuel and 2500 Russians Rephrase. (Perhaps "chased by 2500 Russian troops under the command of General Emmanuel"?)
• Link and introduce Derbent and Grozny (I guess they were important local centers of commerce and power.)
• Where is the Salatau plateau located? A link?
  • No English language page exists. Will check location
• Link Ingush and Ossetians.
• By the fall of 1832, Ghazi Muhammad had lost the support of most of the mountain communities. Why?
• Who is Kazi-Mulla?
  • It's the Russian name for Ghazi Muhammad. It's included the lead. Does it need to be stated again? Revolution Saga (talk) 10:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• ...the daughter of his murshid... Delete "his murshid". Borsoka (talk) 05:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• What about a separate section about his assessment and legacy?
  • Good idea
• (in the lead) The imamate founded by Ghazi Muhammad continued fighting against the Russians and their local allies under his successors Hamzat Bek and Shamil until its final defeat in 1859. Slightly reworded, this could be an ideal closing sentence of the lead. Borsoka (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• Based on what reliable source are the places positioned in the map?
  • It matches the information found in Gammer 1994, map 5. But maybe it should be left out until a higher quality map can be made? Revolution Saga (talk) 10:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
    • I think the map could be restored with a reference to its source in the caption. Borsoka (talk) 01:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• File:Ghazi Muhammad lithograph 1832.jpg: a US PD tag is needed. Borsoka (talk) 05:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Source review

• All sources cited are reliable published by academic (including Russian and Finnish) publishing houses.

*Translate the title of Bodenstedt's work.

• Decide add doi and oclc in addition to isbn at each work, or delete them where the work is identified by isbn.
• The Naqshbandiyya is one of the main Sufi tariqas (orders) in the Muslim world; one of its branches, the Naqshbandiyya-Khalidiyya, had established itself in the Caucasus in the 1810s. Would you quote the text verifying the sentence?
  • Gammer 1994, p. 39: "The Naqshbandiyya is one of the major sufi tariqas and ta'ifas [...] If indeed a Naqshbandi, Shaykh Mansur did not establish the order in the Caucasus. This was done, in fact, by the Naqshbandiyya-Khalidiyya, a branch of the order named after al-Shaykh Diya al-Din Khalid al-Shahrazuri (1776-1827). One of his disciples, al-Shaykh Isma'il al-Kurdumiri, was active for a few years in Shirvan as Shaykh Khalid’s khalifa (deputy) in the late 1810s."
• His memorization of over four hundred ahadith allowed him to win many debates against rival preachers in the area. As his reputation grew, he was invited by many khanates and kingdoms loyal, indifferent, and hostile to the Tsar. Would you quote the text verifying the two sentences?
  • Griffen 2002, p. 45: "Few knew the scriptures as well as Ghazi Mullah, who had committed to memory over four hundred of the Ahadis [sic], or religious epigrams, giving him ample ammunition in debates. His reputation as a holy man spread through the mountains, and still keeping his desires for war buried, he accepted invitations from various khanates and communities, those loyal to the Tsar and those with no declared allegiance." Doesn't mention "hostile to the Tsar," so that phrase should be removed.
• As a sign of humility and austerity, he refused to ride, but would walk. Would you quote the text to verify "austerity"?
  • Baddeley: "He [Ghazi Muhammad] came all the way from Ghimree on foot, for he had not yet raised the standard of the Ghazavat, and was so humble that he feared it might be a sin to ride." Doesn't say austerity, so that word should be removed.
• Reference 45 is correct. Borsoka (talk) 02:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Revolution Saga: there are some minor issues and one major issue to be addressed. When do you think you can address them? If you do not accept some of my suggestions, please inform me. I can accept your decision. The only major issue is the lack of a general picture of Dagestan in the period. Borsoka (talk) 03:26, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I will address the issues in the next couple of days. Thank you for your help. Revolution Saga (talk) 08:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Revolution Saga: when do you think you can address all issues? I put the reviw "on hold" for a week before making a decision. Borsoka (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

After a week of waiting, I have no other choice than failing the article. I think there is not much work to do to meet all GA criteria as otherwise it is a nice and interesting work. Borsoka (talk) 04:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)