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Talk:HMS Arab (1798)

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Arab and Experiment versus Lougen and Aarvaagne 1801

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The version of the battle described in this article differs markedly from the Danish account, which is possibly just as biased. As the link above is in Danish, I summarise the report here.
"HMS Lougen forces two British Frigates to flee from Battle off St Thomas(headline)
In February 1801 in the Danish West Indies there were rumours but no knowledge of any declaration of war between Denmark and Britain. Lougen was sent out, with the schooner Aarvaagne acting as a link to carry any messages back to the Danish Governor General in case of hostilities. Near "Fugleklippen" (West Key in English) on 3 March the two British ships, HMS Arab and Privateer Experiment approached at speed and opened fire without warning, the prelude to a battle lasting more than one hour. Attempts by Experiment to capture Aarvaagne failed as the latter obeyed orders to stay out of the fight and carry the intelligence to her home port. The two British ships then took up the fight either side of Lougen, which was attempting to manoeuvre closer to shore batteries on the island of St Thomas while at the same time serving her guns with her minimal crew. After one hour the cable holding the Arab's anchor was shot through (comment: not he first shot then?), which reduced Arab's sailing capabilities and she withdrew with much damage. The Experiment then came between fire from the shore batteries and Lougen and also withdrew from the fight. The Danes believed that Captain John Perkins of HMS Arab sought to play down his battle damage in his written account."
There seems to be some room for discussion here, and a better description of the battle! comments? Viking1808 (talk) 14:35, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1. I referred to it as lucky, because there are few places that would, in one shot, disable a ship so completely that it would be unable to pursue or continue battle. The shot to the cable aboard Arab was probably not deliberate but did disable Arab to the point that she could not continue or pursue. It might be a subjective viewpoint but it seems reasonable enough to put it in such terms.
2. Having read Perkins' log, which is available at the National Archives, Kew, it would appear that his observances on most things were quite minimal. Later that year he captured the islands of St. Eustatia and Saba, a successful enterprise, that once again he simply states the dry facts for.
3. The short battle is quite a peculiar one as it pre-dates the first battle of Copenhagen by over a month and should not therefore have happened. The murkiness surrounding the incident, I believe, is because it shouldn't have happened in the first place and that it was, at the same time, overshadowed by Nelson at Copenhagen. There is no published account in the London Gazette or any admiralty papers. The only British account I can find is the one at the National Archives which, like I said earlier, says almost nothing.
4. I would certainly be interested in reading further viewpoints on the issue and should you feel that the article is incomplete/biased or otherwise incorrect, I would happily work with you to edit it. Also, should you wish to, there is a section in English Wikipedia that has begun to generate articles for specific single ship actions [for example] and again, although I do not have the time to create one for this action, I would happily collaborate on one.
5. I have read that website as there is an English version of it, in fact I actually put it in the External Links section on the page.

Thanks, Corneredmouse (talk) 15:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Corneredmouse - that was a quick response! Lets wait a bit and see if there are any other comments, then we can rethink the article together. My "entrypoint" is the Lougen rather than Arab or Carribean.Viking1808 (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just reread the article again. I've made a couple of initial edits as it was quite biased (I wrote that section when I was relatively new to wikipedia). I do think a more full description of the battle is called for. Also, I note that a page for Lougen does not exist. I'll happily create or edit one if you can tell me where to find details.Corneredmouse (talk) 12:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a red link at HDMS Lougen where two Danish language links apply to this early Lougen, plus there is this fight with HMS Arab. (You will probably "meet" Acad Ronin thereabouts). Captain Jessen appears again at the Battle of Zealand Point. Viking1808 (talk) 09:57, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
hi Corneredmouse. Your initial edits have certainly improved the article in my eyes. May I suggest a further change viz.

. . . the Danish ship managed to return fire. A shot from Lougen insert note Perkin's reports the shot which loosed Arab's bower cable was Lougens first. The Danish report has the battle lasting an hour before Arab's bower cable was shot through. end of note etc
Such a note (or something like it)would leave the issue open to the reader to make up his own mind. What do you think? Viking1808 (talk) 11:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC) This suggestion has been superceded by Corneredmouse and Acad Ronin's edits of todays date. thanks to both. Viking1808 (talk) 14:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:HMS Arab log 3 March 1801.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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