Talk:Keaton (The Legend of Zelda series)

How about summat on the family name "Keaton"? And the Japanese mythology JayKeaton 13:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation?

Oh, should there be a disambiguation page added? That would probably be helpful... I am Girl 03:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Holy shit, nice work I am Girl! Very impressed with the Keaton page, amazing stuff, yep yep! JayKeaton 17:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not familar with the character or game, but this page needs work. More offcial images and less fanart.

Yea, less fanart. There's no official Keaton art, but I have some in-game screenshots of Keaton that would be nice to put up. Kitsunetsuki 16:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In game pictures of Keaton, that would be brilliant JayKeaton 04:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The keaton fanart has got to go. It's really unprofessional...

Merge

This is ridiculous - this creature only appears as a character for a quick quiz, and its only other appearance is as a non-important enemy. Either put this stuff on the appropriate page, or remove all of it.KrytenKoro 03:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

After removing bad grammar, trimming the excess wording and fat, and removing cruft, it boils down to this -

Keatons are fictional kitsune that appear in The Legend of Zelda series of video games. They are magical, yellow foxes with multiple, black-tipped tails, as well as black-tipped ears and closed, slanted eyes. Keatons recognize each other by the sheen of their tails.

Keatons made their first appearance in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Link could participate in a sidequest which involved him selling the "Keaton Mask", which displayed a Keaton's face, to a soldier guarding the pass to Death Mountain. The guard claims that the mask is for his son (though the guard wears it for the duration of the game), and that the Keaton is "a popular character". Many media at first claimed that this was a reference to Pikachu, though this was never verified.

The Keaton Mask appears again in The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask, where it is used by Kafei to disguise himself. By helping Kafei with his troubles, Link can obtain the mask for himself, allowing him to use it to lure out a (figuratively) real Keaton that hides in various clumps of bushes. Though this Keaton laughs at Link for his feeble attempt to trick it, it challenges Link with a short quiz that, if answered correctly, will reward Link with valuable prizes.

In The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap, Keatons are bipedal, fox-like enemies that appear in yellow and violet hues. They attack by dashing at Link and using knives.

Unless they are not races in the The Legend of Zelda series (which the ref claims they are), then they belong on that page - and since they only have four short paragraphs (and even that is milking as much trivia as possible from the appearance), size is not an issue. I'll wait a day before redirecting, but the merge seems pretty obvious. However, if anyone can mount a successful counter-argument...KrytenKoro 04:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Clearly you are not a Zelda fan, or you would have known that Keaton has more of a role than a quick-quiz and a non important enemy. In the first 3D Zelda game, called the Ocarina of Time, there was a series of mask delivery quests, the first mask was a Keaton mask that you could wear and interact with characters with and deliver to some guy in a nearby town. In Majoras Mask, the second 3D Zelda game, the longest and most complex side quest was in that game, involving a boy and his wife had the boy wearing a Keaton mask to hide his age. The boy walked around the town doing exactly the same thing, unless you intervened. After the Nintendo 64 there was another Nintendo console released, one of the games for it was called Wind Waker. In the game, if you go into the Nintendo gallery in the Forest Haven, you will see a Keaton mask and Goron mask to the right of the sculptor. Of all the foxes in Japanese videogames, the Keaton most accurately follows the Japanese legend of kitsune, which makes it noteworthy also. It makes a lot more sense to me to cut the Keaton information and picture from the very long Legend of Zelda character list page and provide a link to this one. And yes, I may appear to have some kind of bias towards a character called "Keaton", but all the same, I really do think it is note worthy enough to have its own page. And it's not going to effect the servers or anything like that and also having a link in other pages straight to a page about Keatons, rather than a link in other pages to the giant list of characters would also make the viewing experience a more pleasant one for people that actually use wikipedia. JayKeaton 06:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I have about 3 MB of documents and pictures on this laptop, as well as several binders full of art and lists that say you're wrong about me not being a fan.

In OoT, the Keaton Mask was a small facet of the mask quest - there was no flairs to it, like, for example, the Bunny Hood, which you could use to fill up your wallet. In Majora's Mask - okay, so Kafei wore it. Was it because he was a worshipper of Keatons? No. It was because it was a mask - and that info is more related to Kafei, so it goes in his section. The Nintendo Gallery thing is very, very much an easter egg. "Of all the foxes" - no, it isn't. Ninetales more accurately represents it. Keaton just pops out of a bush, asks a few questions, and then leaves. I'm not going to insult you like you did me, but kitsune were a WHOLE hell of a lot more than that. For one, many folklore had them take female form, and seduce japanese men (who would later be found under the dresser in a fox nest) - much like Sexy no Jutsu, hmm? They were nearly ALWAYS more malicious and destructive than that(though sometimes they just played practical jokes). Again - there is not enough info here, and the character is not notable enough to warrant its own article - if you're truly worried about the size of the races article, then propose splitting it into an A-M, N-Z thing on its talk page - making a seperate article for a "character" that is not only totally optional and mostly irrelevant to the storyline, but also very brief in its one real appearance is absurd.

Though, if you really want, I could get the opinion of other members of the Zelda project. However, as a character only appearing once, its designation as a race is suspect, and as a character that has one of the briefest appearances and least importance in the game, it might not be notable enough even for the MM characters page (for goodness' sake, Gorman or the mayor's secretary were more important!).KrytenKoro 06:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

But the mayor's secretary didn't reappear in three titles other than MM, so I wouldn't say she was more important at all. JayKeaton 06:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

She was a player in the Anju - Kafei thing, while Keaton (as a character) had less of an appearance and less impact on any events actually going on. She did appear in OoT, and Keaton didn't. A mask is a cameo, not an actual character. The WW thing is nothing but trivia, by the way. And the TMC appearance had nothing at all to do with the 3D Keatons, beside basic fox-iness.KrytenKoro 07:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Also Keaton appears in another list, Enemies in The Legend of Zelda series, which links to this page for more info, which will redirect to to the other zelda characters list. Having one list link to another for more information just seems ABSURD to me. Keatons are one of the few Zelda creatures that are both enemy and non enemy characters, so granted this problem isn't usually a problem. JayKeaton 06:54, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Then do the obvious thing - have the info about the enemy on the enemies page, and then have a short sentence about "A character by the name of Keaton(link here to races page) also appeared in MM, and a mask named after it appeared in OoT, MM, and as a cameo in WW." If even that - it could be shortened to "There is also a character named Keaton(link) who appeared in MM.", and then talk about the mask and its cameos on the races page (where the info already is, actually, WORD FOR WORD how it appears here). That would solve the problem easily. Creating a seperate article, however, is not an appropriate solution.KrytenKoro 07:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

This discussion hasn't progressed - I'm going to put it in the attention of the wikiproject so they can decide what to do with it.KrytenKoro 13:37, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd say it's fairly obvious that it needs to be merged. It was barely notable even in the games it was in.DurinsBane87 15:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

OK. I'll let JayKeaton weigh in, and hopefully get at least one more opinion, and then perform the merge (unless really compelling arguments are added).KrytenKoro 15:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh! - Do you think that it should be merged to both races, enemies, and characters, or some minor combination?KrytenKoro 15:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, I think it should be merged with enemies, and have it mention on that space that it makes the cameos in the other games. I don't think it belongs in races and it's not much of a character. But that's my opinion. I have a bit of a problem with the races section too, it needs alot of clean up.DurinsBane87 20:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

The Keaton was only made a few cameos and was an enemy. It wasn't actually part of a quest, in Majora's Mask, but the quest allowed access to it. Plus, it's been so long since I played OoT that I can't remember if the quest was important... (The dunadain 01:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Coming Merge

If no one voices any arguments against merging in the next 48 hours, I'll merge this to List of Enemies.DurinsBane87 04:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

In all honesty, it only appears as an enemy in TMC - it's three earlier cameos were as a minor character or animal, and as a char in MM - I would say either have the info on the chars of MM page, or on the races page - besides, Zoras and Gorons have appeared as enemies before too, and we have them on the races page.

At the very least, if you have them on the enemies page, have the info for the yellow fox thing on the char page.KrytenKoro 06:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Keatons are races, not enemies. INJ only 1 out of 4 games its an enemy. In the other three its an animal race. They are actually intelligent and are smarter than a random bunch of monsters like Moblins and ReDeads. I actually think that the Keatons in MC are just a bad bunch, and that these are more thna simple enemies.

It's role as an enemy sounds much larger than it's role as a "character." Also, I don't know if quizzing someone in one game 3 or 4 times for no real reason is enough to call something a character. And it isn't notable as a race. In Zelda 2, there's a good guy who's one of those little blob things, but that doesnt qualify him to be either a character OR a race, because his enemy status was minor. I think it fits in best in the enemies category, with a sidenote in it's paragraph about it's mask cameos/quiz cameo. As for your claim on their intellegence, I never saw the intelligence of Moblins or Redeads actually established. But I haven't read the Manga, so maybe it's in there. And the gorons and zora's appears as enemies rarely. The gorons in one game, while they're major friendlies in like 4 other games, and the Zoras have that whole "river" and "ocean" zora thing that's explained in one of the articles.DurinsBane87 22:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Moblins are pretty intelligent - Have you played TMC or WW? One falls in love with the ugly rich girl, and in TMC, one has enough magic to hide itself as a human, and its not evil, either. In any case - "I actually think" is not applicable here - we only know that we have three masks, one fox, and one fox-like enemy that appears en masse. In any case, its minor in both cases, and tenuously a race in MM.KrytenKoro 17:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Merging Keatons into Enemies would be a good idea. I'm pretty sure that they were an enemy in a game, so I would assume that counts. (The dunadain 01:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Well, the enemy version only appears in TMC, and is a tiny part of this article. Most of the information would actually be more appropriate at "Races" or "List of characters in Majora's Mask".

Anyway - little discussion is going on, but it seems that we all agree it needs to be merged. I'll give it another week for you guys to see this and respond, but anyway.KrytenKoro 05:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this should be merged, it's far too insignificant a character for its own article, judging on its OoT and MM appearances. I would prefer it to be in the "Races" or "Characters" articles, however, its TMC appearance isn't so significant compared to the N64 ones. Haipa Doragon (talk) 15:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

...yeah, it's been two months now, I'm redirecting it to Races.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 21:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)