Talk:Lucinda L. Combs

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 28 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Valledaniela.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:19, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Removed content - uncited

Hi Valledaniela,

I have removed the following content for being uncited, it also appears subjective. ~riley (talk) 03:36, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Given her desire to serve the mission in India, and the strong need for medical professionals overseas, Lucinda set her mind on attending medical school. Not discouraged by the large cost of attending medical school and her lack of financial resources, she searched for employment doing housework for a wealthy family. After finding a family offering a promising position, Lucinda applied. The woman for whom she wished to work expressed concern that Lucinda would be unable to accomplish both her household duties and her academic responsibilities. To the dismay of many, she excelled in both.

== Legacy ==
Countless authors and historians comment on her immense love for God and her dedication to her work as a physician. Her instructors throughout her schooling also realized her determination and grit from the start. Dr. Combs was devoted to using medicine as an avenue to evangelize.

• Valledaniela - Please do not re-add this content again unless it is cited by a reliable source and written objectively. ~riley (talk) 08:22, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

• ~riley Please excuse my unfamiliarity with this editing platform. I am attempting to add a source to substantiate the content whilst also editing the information.

• ValledanielaNo worries, I understand you are learning. It is important that if something has been removed by another user, you discuss before adding back - especially if you have not addressed their concern. Please let me know when you have found a source. ~riley (talk) 08:51, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Coombs vs Combs

Hi Valledaniela,

I am seeing mixed usage of Coombs vs Combs. For now, I have aligned with the article title. Can you confirm which it is? ~riley (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi ~riley

The notation of Lucinda's name appears as 'Combs' in her passport application as well as several school catalogs over the years. I have not figured out how to change the title page back to how I had it originally. I would appreciate help with that. Thanks.

@Valledaniela: WP:ANCESTRY.COM is not a reliable source, we cannot use it to justify the naming of the article. What school catalogs state "Combs"? Several sources linked in this article state Coombs. ~riley (talk) 06:36, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Let's take a look at "original" sources (sources that are scanned or otherwise digitized) that are online (offline or paywall are inaccessible):

• As it stands, this source from 1872-1873 is the most legible source on her name. I believe this is sufficient evidence to support renaming the article. ~riley (talk) 06:46, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Lucinda L. Combs was the first female medical missionary to serve in China? Source: American Women in Mission: A Social History of Their Thought and Practice
  • ALT1:... that Lucinda L. Combs, the first female medical missionary to serve in China, established Beijing's first women's hospital? Source: American Women in Mission: A Social History of Their Thought and Practice

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Dreamer's Bay

Created by Valledaniela (talk) and ~riley (talk). Nominated by ~riley (talk) at 04:54, 19 December 2019 (UTC).

• Driveby (non-review) comment: MOS:DOCTOR advises against using "Dr." prenominally just to denote a position. I have removed this (as well as others per MOS:HONORIFICS) from the article; the hook should reflect this. MIDI (talk) 12:17, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

• Thank you, I was not aware of MOS:DOCTOR. Appreciate this! ~riley (talk) 13:55, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

• No probs! MIDI (talk) 21:56, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

• Interesting article, long enough and new enough. Prose is neutral, inline citations are used, and I could detect no sign of plagiarism. Both hooks are neutral, cited in the article and reasonably interesting, but the second one seems a bit too long to my taste. I also propose ALT2 below, for the sorting editor to consider. QPQ done, so we are good to go. --Muhandes (talk) 11:42, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

• ALT2:... that Lucinda L. Combs established Beijing's first women's hospital? Source: American Women in Mission: A Social History of Their Thought and Practice

Suggestions

Hi Valledaniela, I am considering nominating an article for GA status review and saw this bio in the list. As a 'pay it forward', here are some good faith suggestions for you and other editors to consider. (While I could have made many of the edits directly, I thought it might be helpful to give some of the background reasons for the suggested changes as you approach the GA review.)

Working through the article:

• The middle initial "L." should be clarified somewhere in the bio - does it stand for a distinct middle name or does it refer to her abbreviated name Lucy, or is its meaning uncertain? Is there an original birth/marriage etc source that would clarify the issue?

• Meaning is uncertain, unable to find any reference to what L stands for. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Refer to her as Combs consistently in the body of the bio (see Manual of Style/Biography#Subsequent use). Currently, various forms are used including first name, Miss, Dr, etc. Also see Manual of Style for how to refer to her after her marriage.

• Corrected. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Stating her gender ("female physician") in the first para is unnecessary. The fact that it was unusual to have been a female physician at the time should be explained separately.

• Stating in the first paragraph is necessary for "first medical missionary" to be mentioned, however, the original placement was incorrect. Moved to more appropriate placement. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Supporting citations should be provided for anything in the first para that may be challenged - e.g. possibly the statement that she was "the first medical missionary to serve in China and is credited with establishing the first women's hospital in what was then Peking". See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Citations.
• I think the first para should establish her notability more clearly and in greater depth.
• Check for past tense throughout - e.g. in the Early life section "She is not known to have had any siblings."

• Could not find others aside from that one, let me know if you find any others. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Check for possible confusion in wording - e.g. "At a young age, her parents died..." could possibly refer to either her parents' ages or her age at the time.

• Corrected wording of this specific instance. Could not find others. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Maintain neutrality in religious expressions - e.g. "and committing her life to God" is (subtly) not religiously neutral.
• Check that the citations provide the information described - e.g. in the Education section the information about the Cazenovia Seminary and her graduation year is not found in the cited source (Wheeler).
• Check that the first para accurately reflects the body text - e.g. in the Missionary work section, "She is noted for being the first woman medical missionary to provide medical care in China" is different to what is conveyed in the first para.

• Corrected. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Consider replacing "to Peking" with "in Peking" where it occurs.

• Appropriate correction. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Define WFMS by placing it in brackets after the first time "Women's Foreign Medical Society" occurs. Then, do not revert to the full form (as in the Personal life section).

• Corrected. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Should it be "Women's" in "Peking Woman's Hospital"? Also in Legacy section.

• When referring to the title of the hospital, yes, per sources. When referring to the demographics of the hospital's patients, "women's" is most appropriate. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• In the Establishing the first women's hospital section, replace "its first" with "the" in "In its first five months following its completion...".

• Corrected. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• The phrase "preach the gospel" is not religiously neutral and also assumes the reader knows what you mean by "the gospel" - consider a different way to describe attempts to convert others to her religion.
• In the Personal life section, revise the punctuation in "Bishop I.W Wiley". Also link "Denver, Colorado". Also replace "to" with "at" in "He died before arriving to his family home..."

• Corrected. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• In the Death section, replace "6 years" with "six years". Also consider rephrasing "to be close to her late husband's family and to spend the remainder of her days" as "to spend" is left hanging in the current construction. Also specify in which son's home she died. Also consider "She was buried at..." rather than "Her grave can be visited at..." (the former will always be true but the latter may not).
• I suggest the Legacy section provides a concluding summary of the significant outcomes of her life and reflect what appears in the body of the bio. At present it seems to focus more on Leonora King (who should then be mentioned earlier in the body of the bio if she was significant to Combs' legacy).
• In the Publications section, the first sentence requires a citation.

Hope this is helpful. RLO1729 (talk) 07:08, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

PS:

• In the Death section also link "Franklin County".
• Also consider including at least one relevant illustration. RLO1729 (talk) 09:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Death section linked. I cannot find a relevant illustration thus far. The most I have found is the cover of her thesis, not sure if that's useful? ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• Thanks for this thorough review, RLO1729. I have made the easier corrections but will have to work on the rest tomorrow. Doing my own review, the Death section is going to be a problem as the references are from Ancestry.com which is not a WP:RS and I am having trouble finding reliable sources for that part of her life. ~riley (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• You're very welcome. RLO1729 (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• In the Personal life section consider including from where the ship sailed.
• Primary sources available at FamilySearch indicate: i) her birth date is 10 September in either 1849 or 1850 and ii) the middle initial probably stands for an actual name rather than just "Lucy" as it was given on an official document. See Ohio death cert and US passport appln (you may need to open a free FamilySearch account to view these). The latter document shows her handwriting and signature and also provides a physical description. RLO1729 (talk) 11:05, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• @RLO1729: Both above documents support September 1849. What do I do about "Lucinda, known by her friends and family as "Lucy", was born on October 10, 1849 in Cazenovia, New York."? The reference states October. The reference for this section verifies the birth place, but the wrong birthdate. Do I change the birthdate and add both birth sources? We also have United States Deceased Physician File. ~riley (talk) 11:24, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• The Passport Appln gives 1850. In terms of evidence I think you have to go with the best source available until something better comes along - in this case it would be 10 September 1850 from the Passport Appln filled out in person, rather than the death cert or a later third-party reference. The discrepancy could be mentioned in a Note. As for "Lucy", it appears on the death cert so does seem to have been in common use. The Early life section could begin:

Lucinda L. "Lucy" Combs was born on...

The nickname should also appear in her first para boldface name (see Manual_of_Style/Biography#Pseudonyms...). RLO1729 (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, the death cert does support the third-party source on place of birth as Cazenovia is near Syracuse NY. RLO1729 (talk) 12:06, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

On the other hand, her son's 1952 death cert suggests the middle name initial might stand for Lucy! RLO1729 (talk) 02:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

• Possible additional background and references:

- I noticed that the pages before her Passport Appln are for Sylvanus D Harris (and his wife) who is named on her Appln. He is also listed in An outline history of the foreign missions of the Methodist Episcopal Church (1876) along with his wife and Lucy, and there is a report from Lucy on the following page.

- Also text-search Missions and missionary society of the Methodist Episcopal Church (1879) for Combs, Coombs, and Stritmatter for additional info.

- Have you searched archive.org for other references? RLO1729 (talk) 12:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• A very similar biography appears at lucinda-l-coombs although the date of birth is 10 September 1850 and it relies heavily on ancestry.com sources. RLO1729 (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• Consider using this more primary source for her marriage date and place. From the same book, the view of Peking at the time Lucy was working there might be worth using as an illustration if nothing else is found (and if you can address Wikipedia's copyright requirements to upload it). RLO1729 (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
• This obituary leads to this source and searching within the latter for "Albert Strittmatter" [sic] shows she died at this son's house. I have assembled the whole (short) sketch from this source if you want me to send it to you. RLO1729 (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
• You may be able to obtain a photo of her grave to use in the bio by requesting one at her FindAGrave page. RLO1729 (talk) 07:46, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Remaining items from discussion above

I noticed there are still a few important items that have not been resolved from the discussion above:

• Maintain neutrality in religious expressions - e.g. "and committing her life to God" is (subtly) not religiously neutral.

Resolved.  ~ RLO1729^💬 21:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• The phrase "preach the gospel" is not religiously neutral and also assumes the reader knows what you mean by "the gospel" - consider a different way to describe attempts to convert others to her religion.

Resolved.  ~ RLO1729^💬 21:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• Check that the citations provide the information described - e.g. in the Education section the information about the Cazenovia Seminary and her graduation year is not found in the cited source (Wheeler).

Education section citation problem resolved previously.  ~ RLO1729^💬 22:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• I suggest the Legacy section provides a concluding summary of the significant outcomes of her life and reflect what appears in the body of the bio. At present it seems to focus more on Leonora King (who should then be mentioned earlier in the body of the bio if she was significant to Combs' legacy).
• In the Publications section, the first sentence requires a citation.  ~ RLO1729^💬 09:16, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lucinda L. Combs/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 18:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Nice article, sorry it had to wait so long. I will post my comments soon. Cheers, Sainsf (talk · contribs) 18:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay here are my comments. Well-written and broad in coverage. No dablinks, broken external links or copyvio concerns. Just a duplink JiuJiang in Personal life. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 17:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

• Refer to her as either Lucinda or Combs consistently throughout the article (Except in lead where you take her full name). Similarly say King or Leonora King. Y
• Combs parents died leaving her orphaned at a young age Is it known when?
• You may link 'theological' Y
• perform her domestic and academic responsibilities while attending medical school I would just say 'domestic responsibilities' as medical school refers to her academic responsibilities Y
• She drew the attention of the Methodist women in Philadelphia who helped her continue her studies What was the outcome of that?
• Previously inhabited by multiple households, it is unclear whether the residents evacuated on their own volition or if they were pressured off the land by the WFMS. Needs an inline citation Y
• Soon after their marriage, the couple moved to the southern part of China to a place known as JiuJiang. Earlier you refer to the place as Kiukiang. This needs consistency. Y
• The 'Personal life' heading looks a bit unsuitable to me as Early life should also be part of it in some ways. I think it would be better to merge Personal life and Death under a new heading 'Later life and death'. Y
• "A bright day at the Peking Hospital", "The Peking Hospital", and "A morning's visit at the Peking Hospital" These should be in title case and probably italics. Y

• Hi Sainsf! I know that ~riley is not easily able to get to Wikipedia, so I wanted to help out since one of my students worked on this. I'll put check marks by the (applicable) things that I've worked on. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• I'm not seeing anything about her parents' death date. It looks like much of her early life is lost to the passages of time, so unless ~riley can find something I would have to assume that it's not easily discovered or available. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• I've removed the sentence "Previously inhabited by multiple households, it is unclear whether the residents evacuated on their own volition or if they were pressured off the land by the WFMS.", as it's not in the prior source. It can be re-added if a source is found. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance, Shalor. ~riley's absence wouldn't be an issue in promoting this article, we just need to agree on the few remaining points. If you are fine with those two suggestions I will be happy to go ahead and do the changes myself in case you are unable to. Let me know soon, cheers :) Sainsf (talk · contribs) 04:35, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• No worries, Sainsf! I wanted to track down something with one of the titles in it to see how the works were published - if they were published with only the first letter and location names capitalized, then I'd want to preserve the prior version of the titles. It ends up that the title of the works were in all capitals, so I went ahead and capitalized them. It looks like these were articles in a newspaper called The Heathen Woman's Friend, so I don't think they should be italicized. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:49, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
• I've fixed the personal life one - I'm not sure about the note about the women helping her, as I can't really locate a source for that straight away. I'm going to ping the instructor for the class (@Breamk:) in case he may know of one, plus so he can see the progress on the nomination. I think that takes care of everything? Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:53, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Great job Shalor :) The article is now ready for promotion. Cheers, Sainsf (talk · contribs) 16:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)