Talk:Ray Allen

Name

Commonly referred to as Ray Allen? Also known as Herman Allen. That line makes this entry sound ignorant. He goes by Ray Allen. Every TV station and newspaper call him Ray Allen. He isn't "commonly referred" to as Ray Allen. He is also known as a good defencive player, and he is at his prime while against . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.113.92 (talk) 03:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Early discussions

I suggest reverting "joint" back to "film". After all, this is English Wikipedia, not Spike Lee Dialect Wikipedia. Kaleks 4 July 2005 04:06 (UTC)

Didn't he recently get filmed during a game accidentally getting his eye hit out of it's socket by another player? Maybe it's a different guy.

That was Allan Ray of Villanova University. --jiy (talk) 01:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Thankyou. It's a bit confusing.

This page needs a revert to an earlier version Howaboutadog

Ray is the best 3 point shooter of all time. Yes.

He Got Game

Why is there no mention of He Got Game? Trevor GH5 03:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Table

There needs to be a table instead of straight up text for the career season averages. --Jennica^Talk 08:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Nickname "Jesus"

Since user 75.66.138.30 (talk) has deliberately deleted the nickname Jesus out of this article various times, here is a page that verifies it is an actual nickname: I *Heart* Celtics. | 8-Hype (talk) 21:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

That is not a reliable source. Also, why do you think nationality should be USA and not American? --Tom 19:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Because "nationality" actually means "nationality of", which makes the use of the adjective redundant. Take the Tiger Woods article as an example, or this site. "Nationality" is just another word for "country". | 8-Hype (talk) 19:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

ok, I guess. Is there a Wiki standard for nationality in info boxes? Anyways, thanks, --Tom 19:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a standard maybe, but definitely a NBA scheme on Wikipedia. Also, you will hear those nicknames from Mike Gorman when you watch Celtics games on CSN New England. There is just no source for that (except the game itself). | 8-Hype (talk) 19:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Then it really should not be included. Wikiapedia is not about the "truth" but rather sourced material. Anyways, --Tom 19:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Stats

Those blocks of statistics are unnecessary on Wikipedia, per WP:NOT#STATS. There are other reputable sources on the internet with sports statistics; WP doesn't have to be one, it should just reference one. Timneu22 (talk) 10:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

      -i dissagree with this, i feel statistics are particularly relevant for this article due to allens entire career being based on the high 
       percentage of shots he makes. its likely if someone is looking at a ray allen article they are interested in his stats, so only seems
       reasonable to provide them here
          Jaymsd23 (talk) 17:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

NEEDS TO BE MENTIONED THAT HE HOLDS THE CURRENT NBA RECORD FOR HIGHEST 3pt% IN FINALS @.524.

via http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/2007/nba_finals_stats.html

-Jaymsd23 (talk) 02:11, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Excessive use of pictures

Apparently I have to come here because for some reason, I'm pretty much forbidden from removing the pictures from the article myself (thanks to 8-Hype). I know that many pictures are usually a good thing. But in certain situations, I do think there is a point that you need to stop. There are three pictures in the 'Boston Celtics' section in the article and takes up twice as many space as the text of that section. I think that two of the images can be removed: the image of Allen dunking (the lighting makes it difficult to see Allen at all and is it very far zoomed out) and the image of Allen throwing out a ceremonial first pitch at Fenway Park (which doesn't contribute anything to the article). I think that both of these images can be removed, but 8-Hype won't let me.

I don't know if my IP address would be the same; it should be in the 166.129... range. It has changed a couple times before. 166.129.41.85 (talk) 02:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the ceremonial first pitch image at Fenway Park is appropriate for the honors section. After all, to throw one is to be given an honor. Louis Waweru  Talk  09:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by you're forbidden from removing the pictures because 8-Hype won't let you? I see that they've been removed and then reverted at least three times in the past week (examples here, here and here). I think a consensus needs to be reached regarding the images. Here they are: Your Newest Celtic.jpg Ray Allen Dunk.jpg. I've stated why the Fenway Park picture should remain on the article. I don't see how the Ray Allen Dunk image improves the article. Its bad qualities (brightness, hard to see Allen, perhaps makes the page cluttered) probably hurt the article. So I would support removing it. Louis Waweru  Talk  14:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand what's wrong with having additional pictures. It doesn't hurt anybody, does it? ● 8~Hype ^@ 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Not that it hurts anybody, but too many pictures, or poor quality pictures could hurt the aesthetics of the article. The appearance was so unpleasing to 166.129.41.85 that he removed it three times by my count. I don't think that there are too many pictures, but the infobox is so long and the Celtics section so short that the these two pictures kinda flood over. Maybe an image gallery section would be better? Louis Waweru  Talk  17:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I could understand putting the Fenway picture in the honors section, provided that the honor is at least mentioned in that section. But the Allen dunking picture is of poor quality, has a high level of brightness that makes it difficult to actually see the image without looking too hard, and I don't think these kinds of images help the article. Also, having so many images in a line like that makes the page a bit cluttered, especially if they overflow into other sections of the article, like this one does. 166.129.245.51 (talk) 00:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Moreover, with the addition of the parade photo, this just seems like one (bad) photo too many. Samer (talk) 13:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

"Jesus" nickname

Could I get an explanation on why the "Jesus" nickname requires a mention in the lead, as opposed to the acting section, where there is actual context? The edit summaries reverting the information back into the lead read:

• "It is a fact." - well, sure, but it was unsourced at the time, and this doesn't explain why it is lead-worthy
• "Other player pages also don't have sources for nicknames." - WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, and does not explain why it belongs in the lead
• "So what are you going to do now?" - Not particularly helpful or WP:CIVIL
• "moved nickname back to lead part as this is viable information." - Well, I should hope all information in the article is viable, but we can't put ALL viable information in the lead, obviously. So why this?

So for once, please answer the question - why does a nickname, which is not a reason for the article subject's notability, belong in the lead? --Mosmof (talk) 16:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Because he is widely known by this name. ● 8~Hype ^@ 19:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Could you be a little more convincing? For one, there's nothing in the source you cited that says he's widely known. His teammates call him "Jesus", as do "many fans", but that doesn't mean he's widely known by name. Plus, it's not like "Shaq" or "Nene" or even "Big Baby", where the nickname is part of his identity. For example, if someone came up to you and asked you if you have accepted Jesus into your life, would you seriously ask, "Now, do you mean Jesus Christ of Nazareth or the 6'5" shooting guard of the Boston Celtics?"? Highly unlikely. It's just an interesting piece of trivia that works well with the "He Got Game" paragraph, but nowhere remotely as important as his career stats and honors. Mosmof (talk) 22:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Alright, then can you please explain why Ben Wallace has such unsorced nicknames as "Big Ben" and "The Body" in the lead part? ● 8~Hype ^@ 05:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant. There's no WP that says "If you make one edit that 8-Hype disagrees with in one article, you have to make an equivalent edit in all other similar articles that 8-Hype arbitrarily chooses". I edited Ben Wallace, yes, but it was a minor edit fixing all the "Ben" after first mention to "Wallace". Until WP:MAKESAMEEDITSINALLARTICLES becomes policy, you should drop this argument. It's not constructive.

Speaking of policies, you've reverted my edits again and again and again, violating the 3RR in the process, (and did you notice that you removed a cite in your last revert?), yet you haven't given a straight answer for why a nickname of arguable notability belongs in the lead (and I shouldn't take your bait at redherringing, but what the hell - "Big Ben" arguably has a stronger association, at least in mainstream coverage, with Wallace than "Jesus" does with Allen, though again, I'm open to discussion). --Mosmof (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, so if you were to vandalize Wikipedia and I would revert it three times, I would violate the 3RR? ● 8~Hype ^@ 14:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

If I were vandalizing the article, no, you would not be violating 3RR. But this is a content dispute, and you would be violating WP:AGF. --Mosmof (talk) 19:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you spin it around and actually see the possibility that you might be violating WP:AGF. ● 8~Hype ^@ 19:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

How am I violating WP:AGF? I don't question that you have good intentions, and I'm certainly not baselessly accusing you of vandalism. I'm just trying to explain my point and asking you questions that you're not answering, intentionally or otherwise. --Mosmof (talk) 19:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

So please explain to me how I am violating WP:AGF, and you are not? ● 8~Hype ^@ 20:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say you were violating WP:AGF. I said you *would* be violating WP:AGF if you were to rationalize your 3RR by calling me a vandal. But seriously, can you get back on topic for a moment and explain how a nickname is 1st paragraph material?

Let me see if I can explain (imagine the below as a series of venn diagrams:

1. All content fit for Wikipedia needs to be sourced. But not all content that is sourced is fit for Wikipedia. So "it's sourced" is not a good enough reason to include in the intro.
2. Some content fit for Wikipedia is important enough to be in the first paragraph. But not all content fit for Wikipedia is notable enough to be in the intro.
3. Some nicknames are closely associated with the subject and frequently used by reliable sources to be notable enough for the intro - "Magic", "Shaq" and "Big Baby" come to mind. Some are not. See WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS.

We've actually had a similar discussion in Template talk:Infobox NBA Player#Nickname parameter, so you can refer back there. Now, "Jesus" definitely doesn't fall in the "Magic" category, falls far short of "Shaq" level, and probably not as notable as "T-Mac" or "A.I." or "Stevie Franchise". That tells me that "Jesus" isn't one of the first 10 things that you would mention when explaining Ray Allen to, I don't know, a basketball fan who just spent the last 20 years in a coma. Now, can you explain how the Jesus nickname is 1st paragraph material? --Mosmof (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Kevin Garnett: I didn't say it should be included in the intro because it is sourced. I said it shouldn't be deleted for that reason. But you deleted it and so I felt it was needed to revert the removal of sourced content. Ray Allen: You are not the one to decide in which category a nickname falls - other people have different opinions. If I had to tell 10 things about Ray Allen, #2 or #3 would be that he played in a movie and therefore his nickname is Jesus. That is the reason it should be in the first paragraph. ● 8~Hype ^@ 22:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, 2nd or 3rd item? See, the first thing I would say about Ray Allen is that he's a basketball player. If the "Jesus" nickname is the second thing, that means, I'm explaining his nickname before mentioning that:::

• He is American
• He plays for the Celtics
• He won the 2008 NBA Championship with Boston
• He's 6'8"
• He was born in 1975 in California
• He plays shooting guard
• He is a horrible 3-point shooter
• He played collegiately at Louiville
• He won the Big East Dumbest Player of the Year award
• He is an 0-time All Star
• He is an Olympic gold medalist
• He previously played for the Bucks and the Sonics

The other problem is, the "Jesus" nickname isn't a reason for his notoriety. The fact that he once acted in a wide-released motion picture is a reason for notability, and the reason for the nickname as well. But the "Jesus" nickname is just an interesting trivia that came because of the movie. Allen isn't notable for the nickname "Jesus", nor is he widely known as "Jesus" (widely, as in, people beyond his immediate circles, basketball nerds).

When you describe a basketball player to someone, you could explain his physical attributes, key stats, the team he has played for, awards and championship he's won, I find it hard to believe that the other person would be saying, "Yes, yes, but I must know, WHAT IS HIS NICKNAME???". So absent further evidence, a nickname isn't that notable, nor is it verifiable the way awards, stats, and team affiliations are. And it's not like "Shaq" or "Magic" where the nickname is as closely tied to the basketball player. If you say "I love Jesus", chances are, people would think you mean the one from Nazareth, or in Minnesota, the purple one who also goes by "Adrian Peterson". You won't see a headline in the Globe saying "Jesus scores 29 in Celtics victory". That tells me that while the nickname may be noteworthy in the context of the "He Got Game" role (and I think *that* belongs in the intro), but the nickname on its own is pretty trivial. Mosmof (talk) 23:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Carrer High's

51 Points against bulls in game 6 in the 2009 playoffs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohammed416 (talk • contribs) 01:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

family

saw an NBA program today about how Allen struggled with his game after his son was diagnosed with diabetes after Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals. this also led him to develop philanthropic causes along those lines. something worth mentioning... Chensiyuan (talk) 01:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC) He has a daughter and 2 sons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.78.209 (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Formatting records section

Hiya, User:Hoops gza. You've reverted my edits to the records section, which consisted principally of adding bullets, removing extra linespaces, putting parentheses around text not strictly part of the record, and adding prepositions. What is your objection to these changes? PRRfan (talk) 02:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Seeing no response, I've restored my formatting edits. PRRfan (talk) 02:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Hey. My formatting was simply following the same formatting standard I've been using on all basketball pages, so it makes sense to me to keep it consistent.Hoops gza (talk) 20:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

First off, thanks for your extensive additions to WP; I see you've put in a lot of effort. Now, consistency is good, but consistency with WP style and typographical principles helps ensure that your edits stand. I'd suggest you rethink your formatting. 1) Items on lists are generally delineated with bullets, not space-wasting linespaces. 2) Numerical basketball records are just that: numbers. Date, opponents, location, etc., are secondary. Therefore, supplementary data goes in parentheses after the record itself. ("For" as a connecting word doesn't even make much sense here.) 3) Appository data like "Trails Reggie Miller" falls into this same category: best dealt with in parenthesis, not a bullet-delimited new line. Etc. Finally, a word about good WP behavior (as distinct from style): when you make an edit, put something in the edit summary box. It helps other editors follow your thinking and the progress of an article. PRRfan (talk) 20:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Taxbax, 11 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} currently the league leader in three pointers made ever at 2651 - might make more tonight :)

Taxbax (talk) 02:02, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this is usually handled with sports articles with an active player. But this thread is a duplicate of that below, so marking as not done, and leaving the other open. -Atmoz (talk) 21:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Liburnico, 11 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I think the correct number of three-point filed goals is 2,652

sources:

http://www.nba.com/games/20110210/LALBOS/gameinfo.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=6110819&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

thanks

Liburnico (talk) 09:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Already done Something like this has now been added to the article. -Atmoz (talk) 15:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Johnthedesigner, 26 March 2011

Please add RayAllen20.com to the list of external links, with the description "Ray Allen's Official Website." It has up to date information which supplements the information here but with very little overlap. It would be a useful resource for information about Ray Allen that is not of the type that Wikipedia is meant to carry.

Johnthedesigner (talk) 17:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Done — Bility (talk) 18:52, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 May 2012

I want to edit Ray Allen`s page because they missed some info about him like his Personal Life and thats one of everybody`s chapters

Rilare (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? Hot Stop 14:16, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

 Not done We'll need a specific request, per the instructions on the template. — UncleBubba ^{( T @ C )} 04:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 July 2012

change the ray allen boston celtics to miami heat because he joined miami heat i am sure of it

Timmykools (talk) 02:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done If you're sure, please cite a reliable source confirming this fact... which is not the case because free agents cannot sign new contracts until July 11. Mosmof (talk) 05:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 July 2012

Ray allen plays for the heat now.

LanceB724 (talk) 02:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

• He can't sign the contract until July 11.—Chris!_c/t 02:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 July 2012

| years4 =2012–2051 | team4 = Miami Heat

Now it's the big 4! Chipaholics (talk) 18:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

• See above.—Chris!_c/t 19:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Miami signing

Allen isn't a F.A. He has just signed with Miami.--87.13.251.10 (talk) 06:54, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

You must have overlooked the July moratorium mentioned in the article. No contracts can be signed until July 11.—Bagumba (talk) 07:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Miami 34

Some have been adding 34 as his number and having it removed. While those editors should mention their source somewhere (e.g. in the edit summary), it has been reported.—Bagumba (talk) 18:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 August 2012

bobo po c ray allen :))

boglaks po sya :) 121.54.32.111 (talk) 14:19, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid this is the English Wikipedia. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 14:33, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

inconsistency

Why is there no mention of his inconsistency of shooting? Ray Allen has to be one of the most inconsistent shooter out there. He made 8 three-pointers in the 2010 finals game 2, and bricked 0-13 the next game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chenaren (talk • contribs) 14:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Is this your own synthesis of available data, or is there an expert whose commentary you can attribute? Mosmof (talk) 15:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 June 2013

PLEASE UPDATE THE PICTURE ON THIS PAGE HE IS NOT IN THE CELTICS ANYMORE HE IS A MIAMI HEAT PLAYER AND A 2013 CHAMPION! PICTURE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED Lauraag24 (talk) 14:20, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we can't just use any image we want. We need to find something that is available under a compatible license. Most of the stuff you find online is copyrighted. Zagalejo^^^ 16:57, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Where's his picture?

Where's his picture? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.177.252 (talk) 10:45, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Miami Heat picture

Somebody should update him in a Miami Heat uniform.

Robert (talk) 14:59, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

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3-pointer records

He already lost the consecutive 3-points made record to Curry (who has 3, soon to be 4) and will, after the current season ends in a few days, lose the overall record of 3 times annual leader. See Curry. THX in advance.

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2016

Re-add his jersey number back - It was 20, and 34. Several edits back, it was removed

68.112.25.247 (talk) 00:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: He is a free agent. See Special:Diff/725787983/725788213. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 00:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

More Information (Bucks and Sonics)

RichieConant34 (talk) 07:06, 9 March 2017 (UTC) Ray Allen played 7 really effective seasons in Milwaukee and 4 seasons (part of his prime) in Seattle and his wiki page doesn't show that. I think we need to do some work to try to improve/add information to Allen's career on his page. His Celtics section could also use some formatting work. I was wondering what everyone else thought about this. I would love to help add information myself and I will but I was hoping you guys would also be interesting in improving Allen's page. He deserves it.

@RichieConant34: Be bold! Commit yourself! Something like this could be helpful. DaHuzyBru (talk) 08:28, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

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Ray Allen was serious about two things in life: his three-pointers and the Holocaust

Allen's article has been republished by the Holocaust Museum [1]. His trip has been commented in Israel.Xx236 (talk) 11:23, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Ray Allen is not dead

Who in the hell is trying to portray him as dead while citing sources that are about Cliff Robinson? What a tool. 108.20.236.124 (talk) 08:24, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanls for cleaning that up.—Bagumba (talk) 08:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Born in Atwater CA

Can “near Merced” be replaced with “Atwater CA”? 2601:203:4200:BD00:75D1:971C:8FF8:29E5 (talk) 04:34, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

The ref cited in the article states "Castle Air Force Base in Merced, California" [2]. DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)