Talk:Rodney Waschka II

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Deletion

Please do not delete Rodney Waschka II is an internationally known composer.

The proposed deletion was removed after adding references to assert notability. This composer is a prominient composer and as significant proponent in the academic electronic music community.

I respect and admire the Wikipedia's community in their vigilance; however, in reference to the following which was placed in the proposed removal of this page: "Asserts notability, but does not seem to be a notable composer -- Merkin Concert Hall in New York isn't particularly a huge venue in which to have someone's work performed, for example. " seems to me to be an inexperienced statement. Merkin and Weil Hall in Carnegie are two venues of the same seating size but are both important indicating notability for both contemporary composers and pop musicians alike.

Measuring notability simply on numbers seems to be a mistake in my mind. Many have contributed lots to a small audience and have been significant figures. I want to note the fact that Bach was seen mostly as a simple organist in his time and was not recognized until 100's of years after his death.

My hope is that Wikipedia will not make this error. VoxNovus (talk) 03:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If this composer is recognized 100 years after his death, great -- but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Likewise, if this composer is "prominent," internationally known," and "significant" -- great. My problem is that I don't see the evidence supporting it. Looking at the links, I'm not really seeing any that call him that or describe him in those terms -- for example, the News and Observer article is not about an internationally known, significant proponent of anything, but rather about a local associate professor holding a conference. Several of the articles aren't even about the guy, but rather about someone else who performed something he wrote, and mention his name in passing. What the articles seem to establish is that the guy is a composer -- but that doesn't seem to me to be enough.

To be clear, if he were a notable, well-known composer working in an unusual style of music, then an article would be appropriate. But I don't see anything saying that he is -- the most information I can find about him is his own website. So (unless you can point me to anything) I think an AFD may be appropriate to get further comment from the community. (Because I am by no means the final word on these issues.) Indeed, given that you seem to be creating a series of articles about composers, it may be useful to have an AFD to allow the community to provide some guidelines on which ones are notable enough for inclusion. (And they may say all of them -- if so, great.)

Respectfully, I believe that I am already following Wikepdia's [Criteria_for_composers_and_lyricists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_composers_and_lyricists ] VoxNovus (talk) 19:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's definitely getting somewhere, and I'm glad that you had considered those criteria. There are six criteria listed there -- of those, which do you think that he meets? Here again, I'm in no way opposed to inclusion of composers, but only those composers who meet notability guidelines. So if he meets those, great. --TheOther Bob 23:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure - here we go:

"It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, and television documentaries except for the following:

Media reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician/ensemble talks about themselves, and advertising for the musician/ensemble. Works comprising merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that simply report performance dates or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. An article in a school or university newspaper (or similar) would generally be considered trivial but should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis."
- in the article section he has been written about in several places including university papers but most notably it is the MIT press which stands out to me.
"Artificial Life Models for Musical Applications: Workshop Report" Eleonora Bilotta, Eduardo Reck Miranda, Pietro Pantano, and Peter M. Todd, "MIT Press Journals" Winter 2002, Vol. 8, No. 1, Pages 83-86

"Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country, reported in reliable sources"

- his work has been performed in several venues in the united states and in canada.

Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

- his work is presented on capstone records and centaur records. two prominent contemporary music lables. "An Incomplete Diskography of Computer Musi" The CDCM Computer Music Series on Centaur Records, Stephen Travis Pope Computer Music Journal Vol. 17 Issue

Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.

- he co-wrote an article with Larry Austin

Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

- he has been recognized in his local scene. the local paper "Classical Voice in North Carolina" and other sources have noted him several times.
"Gone in 60 Minutes: Electronic Compositions Showcased at NC State University" - Alexandra Jones, "Classical Voice in North Carolina", October 1st, 2007.
"NCSU’s Arts Now Series: Soothsayers and Shamans” by Karen Moorman"Classical Voice in North Carolina", October 20th, 2006.
"Composer, Teacher Host of North Carolina Computer Music Festival", Christina Dyrness, "The News & Observer", Raleigh, North Carolin,a Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News, March 28, 2002

Has won or placed in a major music competition.

-at the very least he has been inlcuded in the 60x60 project. VoxNovus (talk) 04:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, I noted an organization named Vox Novus on one of the links -- just for full disclosure, if you have any connection with this composer you should probably note that for conflict of interest purposes. (It in no way invalidates your view -- but people do like to know if someone has a vested interest in the article at all (which you may or may not...I have no idea.)).--TheOther Bob 05:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no conflict of interest or vested interest besides enriching the community with knowledge about new music. The purpose of Vox Novus is to strengthen the field of new music. One of the missions has been to list prominent contemporary composers, musicians, and organization on Wikipedia. My opinion is that Wikipedia needs more writers who are qualified to write in regards to this topic. I am by no means a profesional writer and I am stumbling over some of the methods, procedures, and style; however, I am a knowledgable source in the field of new music. With that said, I agree that I should put a description of who and what I am on thel Wikipedia description page. My apologies, I have been busy with work... and frankly ... a little shy.VoxNovus (talk) 19:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]