Talk:Seneca the Younger

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Seneca the Younger article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1: 3 months

Biography: Arts and Entertainment / Politics and Government / Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as High-importance).

Philosophy: Philosophers / Ancient Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Philosophers
	Ancient philosophy

Classical Greece and Rome High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Latin Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latin, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Latin on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LatinWikipedia:WikiProject LatinTemplate:WikiProject LatinLatin
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Spain Low‑importance

	Spain portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpainWikipedia:WikiProject SpainTemplate:WikiProject SpainSpain
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Theatre Mid‑importance

	Theatre portal This article is part of WikiProject Theatre, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of theatre on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.TheatreWikipedia:WikiProject TheatreTemplate:WikiProject TheatreTheatre
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Deleted material

A lot of biographical and other material was deleted by this edit. Are any contributors to this article able to rescue it? -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:36, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seneca Immortality quote

Can the archivist/ author please supply the citation for the boxed Seneca quote:

"What would it take to make men believe in immortality ?, once asked Seneca. To which he replied, that a man had risen from the dead. – Seneca the Younger"

It is possible this is an obscure quote from an early church "Father" such as Tertullian referring to Seneca, however I believe after much searching that it is an extremely paraphrased version of a portion of Seneca's Epistle to Lucillius XXX.9, which is reproduced in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_30:

"Accordingly, I listened to Bassus with the deepest pleasure; he was casting his vote concerning death and pointing out what sort of a thing it is when it is observed, so to speak, nearer at hand. I suppose that a man would have your confidence in a larger degree, and would have more weight with you, if he had come back to life and should declare from experience that there is no evil in death; and so, regarding the approach of death, those will tell you best what disquiet it brings who have stood in its path, who have seen it coming and have welcomed it."

This Seneca quote has been similarly poorly paraphrased in the past by Christian scholars, e.g. "The Connection Between the Sacred Writings and the Literature of Jewish and Heathen Authors: Particularly that of the Classical Ages, Illustrated, Principally with a View to Evidence in Confirmation of the Truth of Revealed Religion, Volume 2, F. C. and J. Rivington, 1819", where it is phrased thus:

"It is remarkable that Seneca observes: 'If one were to rise from the dead, and to inform us upon his own experience, that there is no evil in death, he would obtain more credit, and have greater weight with us than an ordinary teacher!'"

The fact that the Wiki Seneca quote has its own prominent box and is a striking statement (to anyone interested in the origins of Christianity), and yet appears to be a gross overstretch of what Seneca actually said, to me is unacceptable -- unless it is a quote from another author referring to what they think is the gist of Seneca's XXX.9 quote, in which case the correct author of the statement should replace "- Seneca the Younger".

If the quote turns out to be paraphrased Seneca, it should be completely removed from the prominent box, but could be included in the body text in a modified form to indicate it is somebody's (cite please) interpretation of the XXX.9 quote.

AdamKW (talk) 22:19, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To editor AdamKW: I was starting to look into the same quote, when I discovered you'd done this excellent work already. I removed the box in question:

“	What would it take to make men believe in immortality? once asked Seneca. To which he replied, that a man had risen from the dead.	”
– Seneca the Younger

As for who put it there, there is a tool called WikiBlame (a name which is to me both funny and off-putting; what if you're trying to WikiApplaud?) that can tell you. You can then try asking the original editor on the editor's talk page. Sometimes hints can be found in the context of the original edit, too.

Any page that has a history has a link to WikiBlame: select View History → Revision history search.

Thanks for your earnest work! Earnestness is my favorite virtue, by the way, so I only use it in compliments when I really mean it. — Geekdiva (talk) 02:50, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

I found this article a mix of AE and BE spellings. In this early version there is only AE ("romanticized" etc.), so I've standardized on AE (without, of course, changing any verbatim quotations). JamesMLane t c 13:33, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References - ISBN hyperlink not working

The first of the references listed under the reference tab does not produce the reference via the hyperlink of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0226748429 for what reason, I cannot say, I am merely a passerby and do not know the intricacies of the wikipedia booksources system. 174.247.12.13 (talk) 21:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]