Talk:Trihydrogen cation

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Bond strength

Ah, goodie...we updated the bond strength of the molecule. I was using Chemical Structure and Bonding by R.L. DeKock and H.B. Gray (1989). --HappyCamper 19:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good article!

Although it's a tad on the technical side, I enjoyed this article. Thanks for putting it together! — RJH (talk) 16:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

I'm not convinced that protonated molecular hydrogen is the best title for this article. From what I've seen in the literature, most people call it H3+, although I understand that it might not be the best title on Wikipedia. As an alternative, I propose trihydrogen cation or triatomic hydrogen cation. Both are listed as possible names by CAS, unlike protonated molecular hydrogen. Here's the full list:

CA Index Name: Hydrogen, ion (H31+) (8CI,9CI)

Other Names: Hydrogen, H3+ ion (6CI); H3+; H31+; Hydrogen (H3+); Hydrogen (H31+); Hydrogen molecular ion (H3+); Hydrogen triatomic ion (H31+); Hydrogen triatomic ion(1+); Hydrogen triatomic monocation; Hydrogen triatomic monopositive ion; Hydrogen trimer ion(1+); Triatomic hydrogen (H31+); Triatomic hydrogen cation; Triatomic hydrogen cation(1+); Triatomic hydrogen ion(1+); Triatomic hydrogen mol. ion(1+); Trihydrogen cation (H3+); Trihydrogen ion(1+); Trihydrogen monocation; Trihydrogen(1+)

Cheers, Itub 18:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it not a good title for Wikipedia? There used to be a restriction that the software would not allow article titles with plus signs, but that has been fixed. H3+ --HappyCamper 22:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I thought using a formula as a title might be discouraged by the style guide, but perhaps I'm mistaken. --Itub 23:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about that. Wikipedia is so big now that there are too many things to remember. How about moving it to H3+ ion? I've always called this "H-three-plus" though. Has less syllables than any of the alternatives above. --HappyCamper 23:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked for related guidelines. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Plus says that the plus sign may give some trouble, but it's not too bad of a trouble, and is used for C++. Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Prefer_spelled-out_phrases_to_abbreviations may or may not apply, depending on whether you consider H3+ an abbreviation. A precedent, although not a guideline, is that the article E=mc2 was renamed to Energy-mass equivalence. In any case, I don't really like H-three-plus--that is one says it, but it looks odd in writing (E=mc2 is not bad, but imagine E equals em cee square!). My favorite is still trihydrogen cation, with all the others as redirects. --Itub 09:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, this page got lost on my watchlist. OK, I've warmed up to trihydrogen cation and moved the page too. --HappyCamper 12:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In an ionic compound?

Can H3+ from any ionic compounds apart from being in a plasma? The article does not mention if any search has been conducted for this kind of substance - eg H3⁺I^- GB 11:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that it does not form any stable compounds other than itself in interstellar space. It does exist as an intermediate in some terrestrial reactions, but I don't know anything about them. --jdigangi 22:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, recently I read that some one was predicting that it may be stable in solid noble gases such as solid neon. But as yet not tested. GB 12:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ortho/para

While technically interesting, of what use is this phenomenon? Are astrophysicists exploiting it for some sort of interstellar NMR? --Belg4mit (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd imagine it is useful for understanding the chemistry of interstellar clouds.—RJH (talk) 20:25, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Potential energy

I'm not common to this field of physics, and glad to find an article about this cation in wikipedia. I need to know the total potential energy of this ion, i.e. the released energy after recombination with an electron. (I assume, neutral trihydrogen does not exist, so i also would be glad about the released energy in the reaction $H_{3}^{+}+e^{-}\rightarrow H_{2}+H$ which i assume to happen if the ion hits a metallic surface!) Thanks, HRM --193.174.254.3 (talk) 13:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Triatomic hydrogen which can exist very briefly. One reference gives -3.777 eV for lowest state of Triatomic hydrogen. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:09, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ortho vs. Para

Which of the two is more stable? I'd guess para, due to the Pauli Exclusion Principle and the fact that para-H₂ is also more stable than the ortho version. Has anyone come up with a definitive answer? Stonemason89 (talk) 14:40, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How can there be three different electron spins?

How can H₃⁺ have three different electron spins, when it has only two electrons? Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 21:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the ortho para section which says the spins are in the protons, and that there are only two distinct ones? The electrons spins will be U and D fitting with the Pauli exclusion principal. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gracias, señorita. Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 22:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As compensation for that Mr Up, you can update the positronium article with information about the attempts to prolong its life, and weigh it. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Central Molecular Zone

History section refers to Central Molecular Zone but had to search outside Wikipedia to understand. Maybe needs a reference? Tiddy (talk) 07:45, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Destruction reactions

The paragraph on destruction of H₃⁺ mentions a few ways in which the particle is destructed. I was amazed to see not only the particle, but also its charge being destructed. Who knows where did it go? T.vanschaik (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2013 (UTC).[reply]

The mentioned charge destruction not only aplies to reactions of H₃⁺, but also to those of H₃O⁺! T.vanschaik (talk) 07:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Only a cosmic ray?

The article says "H₂⁺ can only be produced in interstellar space by the ionization of H₂ by a cosmic ray." But surely a starlight photon can do that too? The energy can't be that high...--Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC the ionization energy of H₂ is about 15 eV, which would be about 80 nm, which is in the far-but-not-too-far ultraviolet range. Isn't that normal in starlight? Should the article be fixed? --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:32, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See if you can find a reference on the topic. "only" sounds too limiting in this case. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:53, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What I read: H₂ is mainly in dense molecular clouds. UV light is rapidly absorbed on the edges, but cosmic rays can penetrate deeply and can ionise many molecules. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]