Talk:Uar (tribe)

Removals

Removed from the article:

They (Uar & Hunnoi) are supposed to have united around 460 under the rule of one of the five Yuezhi families - the Hephthal indicating a connection to the Bar-Guni of Mongolian inscriptions.

"and (Uar) were one element of the Mongolian Bar-guni."

Reason: can not find any non-wiki source for "Bar-Guni". Please correct my action if a source can be found. Kaz 14:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC) There are many sources of "Bar-Guni". Many old greek texts mention "uar-huns", as a mixed nation of uars (vars, wars, avars) and huns. It is same as the name of one of the tribe of avars: "var-kon", or it can mean avars, too. In recent Hungarian there still exists as a name of "Varkony". Karoly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.48.128.231 (talk) 16:43, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Removed from the article:

The subjugation of the Uyghurs by the Var is a claim which raises its head from time to time. The story goes that one branch of the Juan Juan was called var, and they were placed at the head of the Uyghurs after subjugating them.

Reason: although the claim abounds on sites not using wiki sources, the claim seems illogical since the Uighurs did not exist at this time and there is no "var" sound in Chinese. Please correct my action if a source can be found. Kaz 14:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC) NB I have just discovered something useful at Talk:Hua (state)Kaz 15:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed from the article:

The polyandry customs among the Hua, as similar to the Göktürks, was an uncommon practice in the steppe and had been suggested to be of Iranian or Hindu origin.

Reason: can not find any non-wiki source for the info. Please correct my action if a source can be found.Kaz 16:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

"Peoples with similar ethnicons had been present along the Silk Road for centuries, and several of the Central European family names actually derive from the names of such tribes."

I have no problem believing this, but a few examples would be great. Dysmorodrepanis 18:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sources

The following is taken from "The History of the Jewish Khazars," by D.M. Dunlop, pp. 4-15.:

"...The chronicler Theophanes {died circa A.D. 818} who tells the story introduces them as "the Turks from the east whom they call Khazars." (Ed. Bonn, 485) On the other hand, the West Turks appear in the Greek writers simply as Turks, without special qualification. The Syriac historians mention the Khazars earlier than A.D. 627. Both Michael Syrus (Ed. Cabot, 381, col. 1, line 9) and Bar Hebraeus (Ed. Budge, 32b, col. 1, line 13) tell how, apparently in the reign of the Greek Emperor Maurcie (582-602), three brothers from "inner Scythia" marched west with 30,000 men, and when they reached the frontier of the Greeks, one of them, Bulgarios (Bar Hebraeus, Bulgaris), crossed the Don and settled within the Empire. The others occupied "the country of the Alans which is called Barsalia, " they and the former inhabitants adopting the name of Khazars from Kazarig, the eldest of the brothers. If as seems possible the story goes back to John of Ephesus (So Barthold, E.I., art. Bulghar) {died circa A.D. 586}, it is contemporary with the alleged event. It states pretty explicitly that the Khazars arrived at the Caucasus from central Asia towards the end of the 6th century. In the Greek writer Theophylact Simocatta {circa 620} we have an almost contemporary account of events among the West Turks which can hardly be unrelated to the Syriac story just mentioned. (Ed. Bonn, 282ff, Chavannes, Documents, 246ff) Speaking of a Turkish embassy to Maurice in 598, this author describes how in past years the Turks had overthrown the White Huns (Hephthalites), the Avars, and the Uigurs who lived on "the Til, which the Turks call the Black River." (Unidentified. Til is apparently the same as atil, itil, "river." Cf. Atil, Itil=the Volga. Zeuss (Die Deutschen, 713n.) denied that the Volga was meant. Marquart, followed by Chavannes (Documents, 251), suggested the Tola, a tributary of the Orkhon, which is probably too far east). These Uigurs, says Theophylact, were descended from two chiefs called Var and Hunni. They are mentioned elsewhere as the "Varchonites." (Menander Protector, ed. Bonn, 400) Some of the Uigurs escaped from the Turks, and, appearing in the West, were regarded by those whom they met as Avars, by which name they were generally known. The last part of this is confirmed by another Greek author, according to whom Justinian received representatives of The pseudo-Avars, properly Uigurs, in A.D. 558, (Menander, ibid., 282) after which they turned to plundering and laying wast the lands of eastern and central Europe. If the derivation from Uigur is right, the word "ogre" in folklore may date from this early period. Theophylact also tells us that about the time of the Turkish embassy in 598 there was another emigration of fugitives from Asia into Europe, involving the tribes of the Tarniakh, Kotzagers, and Zabender. These were, like the previous arrivals, descendants of Var and Hunni, and they proved their kinship by joining the so- called Avars, really Uigurs, under the Khaqan of the latter. It is difficult not to see in this another version of the story given by Michael Syrus and Bar Hebraeus. The Kotzagers are undoubtedly a Bulgar group, (Cf. Marquart, Streifziige, 488) while Zabender should be the same name as Samandar, an important Khazar town, and hence correspond to Kazarig in the Syriac. Originally, it seems, Samandar derived its name from the occupying tribe. (Menander, ibid., 282) ..."

Kaz 22:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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Uarguni

Here any clever man writes the following: "Removed from the article: They (Uar & Hunnoi) are supposed to have united around 460 under the rule of one of the five Yuezhi families - the Hephthal indicating a connection to the Bar-Guni of Mongolian inscriptions. "and (Uar) were one element of the Mongolian Bar-guni."

Reason: can not find any non-wiki source for "Bar-Guni".Please correct my action if a source can be found. Kaz 14:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)" If the person does not know history and sources what for it tries someone to correct? see the source for Uarguni: "Uarguni adli bir oymak bugunde Mogollar arasinda yasamaktadir" - From Turkic language - Patrimonial division Uarguni till now lives among Mongols (see Tarihte Turkluk". Prof.Dr. Laszlo Rasonyi. Ankara, 1979, p.79--81.24.80.50 (talk) 09:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Hua/Huar were a branch of Sino-Caucasian Caucasoid "Di" People

Hua word in Chinese is Hua "side, country, Pashtun/Pahtun country" (huayend "sleepery", huadzedel "to ask to be let off")word in Afghan language.Well-known, that in the most different languages of a word with value " the side, the party " can have the single-root variants in the form of "to slide, wander, pass, extend". For example in a Hebrew: 'eber "side of river", la'avor "To pass, be forwarded", 'avar "has passed".Thus we see full concurrence with oldiranian word varah/var " a side, the party " and modern iranian avardan "to bring",avare "wandering, the tramp". In Iran there is also a river Auhar and the city Auhar.In Language of Caucasian Avars (<Auhar<Huar) hwa-deze is "to wander"/"-d" is a parameter of the speeded up action, and "-ze" the verbal termination/ and "hua-ze" to draw, spend a line, to draw " (the same value is available in Chinese). Old designation of the Caucasian Avars were "Auhar" (see W.Minorsky) is iranized form of Hua/hwar.On L.N.Gumilev Hua people (Hephthalites) is a part of chineze-tibetan (now it is possible with confidence and to tell more precisely that Sino-caucasian) caucasoid Di people.No doubt descendants of people "Di" are modern pashtuns (AparDi, Afridi) and the Caucasian Avars. The first having lost the language send on Afghani (Pashtun), the second on one of Nakh-Dagesthanian (Caucasian). See also Omeljan Pritsak: "On the northern Caucasus, which was the border zone between the Sassanids (and latter the Islamic Caliphate) and the Khazar Kaganate at the time of its flower, we find the same Proto-Mongol structures that we find on the northeastern Chinese border. The main role there was played by the "true Avars" (*Ahwar /Wuhuan), the *Sebirs (Hsien-pi), the K'u-mo and the *Qay+lan/Qay+dag (Hsi)". ssvit.iatp.org.ua/sum/sum96~1.htm. This Hua/Hwa/Hoa people really was under strong influence of Protomongols. The chinese classic Liang chih-kung-t'u describes Hepthalites (Afu/Hua/Avar) as of the same origin as the Hua Country (Huaguo). Meanwhile the western Hvar branch migrated into Hualazimu (花剌子模 aka Kua-Li-kia) and still exist to this day in Daghestan (Northern Caucasus). From this location they launched the European Avar empire, and enjoyed their last flourish of prowess under Kuber before settling in Transylvania to join the Magyar federation as the Havar. Several central European family names derive from the name of this tribe.And besides, the Byzantian sources directly speak that Avars lived on coast of the river.--81.24.80.50 (talk) 09:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

about source of Uar-Hunnoi

Your Page is good but the turkic source (Uar-Hunnoi) is bad source (facsist-panturkist). And "As a result of these excavations, it has been determined that the Turkish type (brachycephalic) had a significant level among various types such as Germanic, Slav, Iranian, Finno-Ugrian, etc" it's radiculous. True turkic Turks in Turkey are 5 - 7% (mtDNK, Y-chromosome). Brachikephal Europoid: Alpines, Balkanians, Caucasians, Pamirians (NO "TURKIC" BUT OLD PROTOCELTIC — BALKANO-CAUCASIAN or PAMIRO-ALPIN RACE). Another Source about antropologie of Eurasian Avars: "Liptak (1955) went into the details of Avar Period’santhropology in his candidate degree thesis.He stated his opinion that archeological chronology system was simply wrong.According to Liptak, too much cemeteries were dated for the 8th century and too few for the 7th and the 9th centuries.He pointed out as an obvious contradiction the fact, that 7th century, early Avar anthropological material was almost exclusively Europid, while grave-goods indicated Middleand Central Asian parallels. On the other hand there were cemeteries dated for the 8th century that contained Mongoloid elements among others. The attire and armament introduced by the Avars was rapidly adapted by other ethnic groups, it became the general fashion of the region in the 7th century.Therefore the separation of autochton elements was (and is)simply impossible by archeological means. That is why Liptak strongly emphasized that to talk of Avar Period population makes much more sense than to stick with the phrases of “the Avars” and of “Avar population”... Liptak outlined his view that the gracile Mediterranean type was autochton, while the brachycran Europid types were partly typical of the local inhabitants,partly they migrated to the Central Danubian Basin with the Avars. He found the origin of Cromagnoids, Nordoids and large stature Mediterraneans uncertain, and he indicated migration as the probable reason of their emergence. Liptak mentioned the Asiatic origin of Mongolid and Mongoloid population elements, but he did not go into the details of any closer relationship or parallel. Liptak analysed the Avar Period population of the Danube-Tisza midland region and stated that 80% of them was of Europid character.He separated narrow-faced dolichomorph types (Nordoid, Mediterranean) in 38%, broad-faced Cromagnoid types (A and B) in 22.6%, and brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individualsof undefined origin) in 17.1%... He found the tall stature, dolichomorph, narrow-faced variation (its frequency was 22%) non-homogenous. Liptk put the northern (Nordic) and tall Mediterraneans under this heading.He separated two regional varieties, a western(Atlanto-) Mediterranean one and an eastern or Indo-Iranian one...Liptak considered the gracile Mediterranean (Ibero-Cromagnoid types Insular) type the most significant component of the Avar Period population. The that were classified the descendants of the Upper-Palaeolithic Cromagnon race were rated important components of the Avar Period population by Liptak. He added that these types kept their significance in the Arpadian Age as well. The author put Pamirian (Pamiro-Ferganian), Dinarian, Alpine and Near Eastern (Armenoid types under the heading of brachycran) elements... Their presence was insignificant in the Avar Period. Liptak paid the most attention to the Turanid (South-Siberian)and to the Ural types from the Europo-Mongoloids. Noneof the two had much significance in the Avar Period, but they were dominant among the conquering Hungarians. Liptak identified and described in detail three kinds among the Mongoloids of the Avar Period: the Northern-Chinese(Chinid), the Central Asian Mongol and the palaeo-Siberian types. He considered the two later types the keycomponents of Avar Period Mongolids...Liptak voted for the dual origin theory when studying the ethnogenesis of the Avars.He called true-born (pure blooded)Avar (Varchonite) those small series which were characterized by Mongolid and Mongoloid features. According to Liptak’s opinion the progenitors of the Vachonite originated from beyond Lake Baykal,and they migrated into Southern- Central Asia only sometime later.From there they were forced out by the Turkis hpeoples, and so they escaped into the Central Danubian Basin.There were series with acomparatively high ratio of the Iranian type (Kiskoros-Varos alatt,Alattyan).Liptak named them ones with Hephtalite origin because he considered the Indo-Iranian Mediterranean type a significant ethnical component of the Hephtalites. This type could be traced back as far as Central Asia (Liptak1983)". Volume 44(1-4):87-94, 2000 Acta Biologica Szegediensis http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/ABS. Erzsébet Fóthi. Anthropological conclusions of the study ofRoman and Migration periods Acta Biol Szeged 2000, 44:87-94 Abstract PDF. SYMPOSIUM Department of Anthropology, Hungarian Natural History Museum, Budapest,Hungary Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods. Erzsebet Fothi.

In your Panturkist source "Uar-Hunnoi" is "Avars in Pannonia were brachikephales and Turks" in work of proffesional anthropologes is 38% Avars in Panonnia-Donau-Tisza were Nordoid, Cromagnon (=dolichokephales)and..."brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individuals of undefined origin) in 17.1%" (!). Cromagnon type in Caucasus is Caucasions (North Caucasian mountain blondes) anthropological Type of Alpin-Pamirian (Balkano-Caucasian) type. "Armenoid" brachikephal type is Hurrian type (Hurrites). In Pamir lives Iranian (Tadjiks). Mountain Tadjiks are pure Europoid. More Pushtunians of Kandagar are Blondes. Varhonites were Nordoids and Cromagnons: as German, Dinlins, Tokharians, Nirun-Mongols, Caucasiones, Pamirians (Alpin-Pamirians, Balcano-Caucasians): as Tadjiks, more Caucasians, Balkanians, Austrians, South Germanians and others (Celtic race), Northern Mongoloid (as Mongols from Baykal, Northern Chines and others). 80% were Europoids (Caucasoids).--Awarenstuermer 08:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

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The Avars (Auhar, Hwar) are not ancestors of modern People Uigurs

Avars any not ancestors of modern Uigurs. Ancestors of modern Uigurs were Tokharians and East Iranians passed to Turkic speech Tokuz-Oghuz. Down to 8-10 centuries on territory of Tarim (our Sino-caucasian imperial Shinzyan, not "Tukistan"!) Turkic speech did not dominate. And in general the term "Uighur" not ethnic, but political. Turkic TELE - turkized white sino-caucasian "Di/Dili" people, have completely supported Gokturks (Tuerkuets)against Avars (Rouran).--81.24.80.50 (talk) 10:11, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

deletion

This article should not exist because the is no scholarly concensus that the middle Chinese translation of Hua is even Var !! So this article could in fact be a nonsense entity Anyway all that needs to be said about the postulated link could be put in the Hephthalites and Avar articles Slovenski Volk (talk) 01:51, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Uar in documents

http://www.hrono.ru/0500sa.html

• 557 Разгром тюркютами вар, хуни и огоров.
• 558 Покорение огоров; бегство вар и хуни-псевдоаваров на Запад.

Translate:

• 557 The defeat of the Turks - Uar, Huni and Ogors.
• 558 Conquest of the Ogors; Uar flight and Huni-Psevdoavars the West.Magyar from Ural Magyar from Ural (talk) 07:36, 6 January 2016 (UTC)Magyar from Ural (talk) 07:38, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

You're using an outdated literature.Your Gumilev L.N. 3 times changed his point of view on this theme.Furthermore it can not be regarded as a serious professional. We needed authoritative sources and authors, and your authors are not author of monographs.Your author Gumilev also calls Huni/Psudoavars the "Sarmatian tribe of Hyaona",but you do not write about here. And in all his later works Gumilev clearly indicates that so called Psevdoavars belonged to Sarmatians.Not to Turkic Bashkirs or Azerbaijanians, but to the Iranian-speaking Sarmatian tribe.Sarmatia is not Bashkortostan or Azerbaijan.

Uar/Hua people was never Ugric/Turkic tribe

"...and are often confused with the Caucasian Avars (an unrelated people)".It's pan-Turkic nonsense. These pan-Turkist nationalists even insolent to the extreme! You do not dare to mention here Caucasian Avars in this sense that they are someone confuses! I removed these words because they refer to is not serious literature, whose authors can not be regarded as professionals in this field. Let's see what kind of literature in which the authors refer: Муратов Б.А. Аланы, кавары и хиониты в этногенезе башкир ("Alans,Kawars and no Chionites in the ethnogenesis of the Bashkirs".Materials of scientific conference Ufa,2008).Who is Muratov? What and where are the conferences Bashkirs? No Alans, and Kavars Chionites never been in the ethnogenesis of the Bashkirs. ll this fantasy from an inferiority complex. A It is not serious to refer to anyone not well-known Russian-language speakers of the Russian-speaking conferences in Ufa 2008! The second work to which the author refers L.N. Gumilyov.Gumilyov was never considered an expert of people Uar or Avar.Moreover it does not have a single line that some sort Uar (< Hua) confused with the Caucasian Avars. I did not understand who the Bashkirs, to whom they count themselves among all these fantasies. We need a serious indication of the serious work of the authors. Links to reputable and well-known authors of monographs and not any there a Pan-Turkist conference of 2008 year in the capital of Bashkortostan! I propose to ban all authors of pan-Turkic edits and roll back to the previous page edits, where it was said about the people HUA (Chinese 滑 Huá).About Genetic relations of the North Caucasians (including Avars) with the Iranians, the Uighurs, the Chineseans and the peoples of Afghanistan see: Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events. According to this Harvard University's work closest outside relatives of the Cauc. Avars are the Uzbeks of Afghanistan, Hazaras of Afghanistan and Pakistan (Mongolian people with Farsi language), Iranians of province Khorasan and Uighurs of China. Usingthis link we find out where the country Apar/Abar (also Abarshahr).In province of Horasan. See: Dr. Mehmet Tezcan.The Ethnonym Apar in the Turkish Inscriptions of the VIII. Century and Armenian Manuscripts

UAR as HUA (滑<HUƏR)

"Uar" < "Huá" 滑 people. I propose to immediately remove the word about "Ugric origin" of the Avars, as in any long-term studies, nothing of the kind. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, for example, about the origin of the Avars of Caucaland Khaganate ("Caucaland" was the Name of Transsylvania) in Europe indicated that origin of Pannonian Avars is unknown. Yet on another page of Britannica of them said that they belonged to the proto-Mongols.Also according to Khagane of Türküts the Pannonıan Avars of Europe were pseudo-Avars.Károly Czeglédy (1954) at first considered that the Xyōn = Chionites = Xiong-nu had united with the *Uar (an unattested name reconstructed from the Hua of the Chinese sources) = Hephthalites under the latter between ca. 350 and 450, but in a subsequent, more detailed discussion (1969) he dated this event before 350 and localized it in the Altai range. Furthermore, he identified the Juan-Juan (Zhuan-zhuan) of the Chinese sources (Mathews, no. 3164) with the *Uar/Xyōn and the European Avars, called in late 6th-century Byzantine sources Ouarchōnîtai (Menander Protector [6th century, p. 205 ll. 25-27) or Ouár, Hoûnnoi, and Khounní (Theophylactus Simocatta [1st half 7th century], pp. 258 l. 4, 259 l. 10; for a critical analysis of these hypotheses, see Mohay).See: K. Czeglédy, “Heftaliták, hunok, avarok, onogurok” (Hepthalites, Huns, Avars, Onogurs), Magyar Nyelv 50, 1954, pp. 142-51; repr. as IV-IX. Századi nepmozgalmak a steppén, Magyar Nyelvtudományi Társaság Kiadványok (Monographs of the Hungarian linguistic society) 84, 1954. Idem, Nomád népek vándorlása napkelettöl napayugatig (On the migrations of the steppe peoples), Körösi Csoma kiskönyvtár 8, Budapest, 1969.H. W. Haussig assumed that the Huns who invaded Sogdiana in the mid-4th century were the same people who had conquered Lo-yang, capital of the West¬ern Chin empire, under the leadership of Liu Cong (Ts’ung) in 311. He interpreted the name Ouarchōnîtai as a combination of *Uar/Hua = Hephthalites and Chōn = Huns; according to Theophylactus Simocatta (pp. 258 l. 4, 259 l. 10; cf. Haussig, 1953, pp. 283, 287), the Huns had been the masters of the Avars, who had settled in the same region (for Haussig’s most recent statement of his views, see 1973, esp. pp. 173-181, 190-91; cf. Mohay, pp. 141¬-42).See: H. W. Haussig, “Theophylakts Exkurs über die skythischen Völker,” Byzantion 23, 1953, pp. 275-462. Idem, “Zur Lösung der Awarenfrage,” Byzantinoslavica 34, 1973, pp. 173-92. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.172.58.15 (talk) 17:05, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Why administrators do not control the clogging of Wikipedia articles all sorts of quack? In Wiki removes the right quality articles, and instead placed absolutely stupid and ignorant article. We are talking about the Caucasian and Iranian people, their history and their ancestors. Why did not anyone check the links to the authors? Who are the authors of what they write? Muratov as author from Bashkortostan. Who is this? Why is there a reference to it?Муратов Б.А. Аланы, кавары и хиониты в этногенезе башкир ("Alans,Kawars and no Chionites in the ethnogenesis of the Bashkirs".Materials of scientific conference Ufa,2008).Who is Muratov? What and where are the conferences Bashkirs? No Alans, and Kavars Chionites never been in the ethnogenesis of the Bashkirs.This author has written and continues to write any delirium, pan-Turkic fantasy.On specializes in the falsification of the history of the Caucasian and Iranian peoples.The same Muratov in another article says that the so called Mitannian Aryans were the ancestors of Bashkirs.When this is all over at Wikipedia? Why is no one behind this unfollow or control?--Wrkan (talk) 10:27, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Remove the administrator!

You need to remove administrator nemedlenno.Why? Because it allows for the destruction of good statey.Vmesto placed them stupid meaningless fantazii.Chtoby understand it enough to look at the links statey.Avtory satay authors ignore the generally accepted names of famous scientists.Instead, they found a reference to charlatans with nepolnotsennosti.Oni complex usually no one in the scientific community are not known, and come from some sort of Russian Turkish Republic of Bashkortostan type or from Turkey.All this is easy to check, but administrators do not check. Instead, they simply destroy the normal articles and replace them with meaningless--Wrkan (talk) 10:50, 16 November 2016 (UTC)