User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz/Archive 31

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General rule: do not remove sourced edits just because.

#Be informed that your edit here looks very much like a disruptive one. You blanked a well-sourced edit on a pretence it's an original research, failing to notice all numbers are the same as they were in the documents provided by the US government's contractee. You also failed to inform me prior to the deletion of the data, start any discussion, ask if I have the source, whatever - you basically decided to not engage in any normal teamwork process. That's exactly what they call an article ownership behavior.

1. First time you deleted a similar entry (also without any communication) because the links were dead. The FH obviously deleted the data from their site after the initial edit was done. This deletion of the information, however, should not have happened at all, had you followed the fourth pillar of WP. You well knew another editor verified the source, and you had every chance to either find new links (which took me less than 10 minutes), or ask for help looking for them. Instead, you just deleted the data.
2. This, second time all links were working. And I really hope your revert was done in good faith, and you just did not notice working links to the government website with the exact information that was posted in the article. If so, please check the links, and see there was no need for the deletion.
3. Re your explanations about "manuals of style". No policy, certainly not the WP:MOSINTRO part (which you linked to as WP:MOS, and later as WP:LEDE) prohibits, or discourages to insert in the lead any vital information about organization. Funding is definitely a vital information. (Did you hear of Sarkozy's campaign?:)) Furthermore, this short piece of text from the lead is explained in details in the article itself, just as described in the policy. However, if you the sentence it's either too big, or messy, or otherwise "inappropriate" - let's discuss. I'm sure we can work out a decision that would satisfy both of us.
4. Re your claims that I was somehow "baiting" you with the edit summary "Internets don't forget, KW. Links good as new, no FH sites this time. Wonder if guys are smart enough to cleanse WV's portal, lol". These are, quite frankly, your very own personal interpretation of my words, and I really respect it, but just have no right, nor wish to comment. My own personal belief is that a) humor makes the world better, b) God gave me so much more than anybody would need to lose any wish to "bait" anyone.
5. The last, but, probably, the most important. In this edit it very much looks like you try to bully another editor (me, to be precise) on a false pretext, claiming: "you continue to violate Wikipedia's no OR policy by adding your personal analysis" (which, of course, is not true), and threatening me with being "blocked from editing". The thing is, KW, that I very much know what I'm doing here, and certainly am surprised to see someone seriously claiming quoting numbers directly from the auditors' reports is now an "original research", or that I am going to be blocked for doing so. However, this type of behavior you demonstrate is really not encouraged here for another reason: it may scare away some younger editors (and you like to use all those flashy frightening signs too, right?:)). As such, this behavior much well disrupt this place as a piece common work. I really urge you not to talk like this to younger editors, if you happen to discuss anything with them. But please feel free to communicate to me the way that is natural to you, due to my profession I'm rather used to talking with people with different backgrounds.
6. To sum up, I reverted the unexplained/ falsely explained deletion of the sourced data. I am very open to any discussions on the article talkpage. Until we reached some consensus there, I believe it would be fair to have data that does not satisfy any criteria for speedy deletion (other than the false OR claims) right there in place, and really urge you to not start an edit war around it. P.S. It would also be very nice to maybe even hear an apology for trying to bully a fellow editor. Sincerely, FeelSunny (talk) 00:25, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello FeelSunny

I have asked for second opinions about my edits at appropriate fora.

I shall wait for others to comment before replying.

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that's nice to know. Let's wait. Sincerely, FeelSunny (talk) 00:54, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi FeelSunny!

I struck through my comment and left the following apology on your talk page:

This edit was not a good start. It looks to me like OR by synthesis (at best) or just OR, and poorly documented OR at that. I am glad that you have since given page numbers, but it is still OR.

That said, I over-reacted. I confused you with the other editor who preceded you and who made the POV-pushing edits. I shall take a break from editing now, because fatigue may explain but cannot excuse my leaving such an inappropriate template. Please accept my apologies.

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Again, I apologize for mistaking you for the other editor. I am grateful for your understanding tone, and forward-looking response, already.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 01:01, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and sorry too for maybe pushing it too much. Let's move on to some more rewarding edits:) FeelSunny (talk) 01:21, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

BTW, I was the editor (I think!) who found the critical articles by leftist Latin Americanist Scott Mainwaring and leftist comparativist Adam Przeworski, both of whom are intelligent and interesting, and know something about the real world, for the Freedom in the World article. I object to sloppy criticism, but I think I have been more than fair to critics of FH (at least in replacing leftist junk with leftist gold). Would that I have had time to find additional gold on the center or right...!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 01:35, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, my own POV is - the FH just should not have been ever headed by a former CIA head saying Russia is "moving to fascism". It really sounds rather weird at least, and just as silly. Same when they say Russia and Saudis are equally not free - an organization like that should just be banged on it's head to make sure it understands it could and should do a better work for the good of us all for those money. It's a soft power, not a CIA branch, after all.FeelSunny (talk) 02:08, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

You seem to know more about contemporary FH than I do. It may be worth considering that the CIA divisions have often cautioned against the adventures of Presidential officials, at great personal cost---c.f. Valerie Palm. I agree that a priori a head of the operations division of the CIA would be unsuitable, but I can imagine George Bush Senior or a cartographer or analyst being considered to head FH..., particularly if that person had a history of integrity and courage.

I have no idea why Chomsky is regarded cited for the FH article, particularly when his books are not peer-reviewed and refereed or published by leading publishers; I judge his Fateful Triangle's discussion of the USSR in the Middle East to be less credible than Republic of Fear or my eyes viewing the T-60s in 1991--2003, to put my own cards on the table. (But WP is not a soapbox....)

I agree that there have been ridiculous overstatements regarding contemporary Russian authority, which does not seek to invade all of civil society, or even a lot of it (apart from some choice pickings). I suspect that we agree regarding much of what is wrong with the USA, also. :)

Ignorantly but sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Just because ;P Pesky (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Pesky! :)

Please help out at the Paid Editor Help page

While not a huge backlog yet, we're getting to it on the Paid Editor Help page. The sections that need replies include Colin Digiaro, Guy Bavli, Strayer University, Stevens Institute of Technology, and a general backlog in the Request Edits category. If you could help in any of these sections (primarily the first four), I would be really grateful. This notification is going out to a number of Wikiproject Cooperation members in the hopes that we can clear out all of the noted sections. And feel free to respond to a section and help out even if someone else had already responded there. The more eyes we get on a specific request, the more sure we can be on the neutrality of implementing it. Thanks! Silverseren^C 03:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Silver seren!

I wish that I had time, particularly to help at Stevens Insitute of Technology, which should be much better known. A building with particularly thick walls in its particulary deep basement was the site of Charles Sanders Peirce's implementation of his optimal design (allocation of experimental units) of a response-surface experiment.

Its mathematics department is particularly strong in computational mathematics, and features a world leader in stochastic optimization.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:34, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

RfA of SW and A Question

I m sorry for my comment. It was my first time when I became active in any RfA, so I got carried away way to far. I was so worked up that i ended up making a silly comment which u objected. It was not my intention to be aggressive or not to be polite, but that comment was like one. I understand my mistake and ensure you that you will not get any further complains for me.

I also want to be clarified, I thought that u might help me. Previously there was " " in my sign, but a editor friend showed me that why images are not proper for sign so i eventually removed it. But lately, i have kept " :) " in place of the picture. I wanted to know that will it create any problem, I have read WP:SIGN and didnt find any problem in using " :) ". I just wanted to be sure, so asked for an opinion from an senior editor. Please tell me if I m going wrong in any direction.

Again, I m very sorry for my comment and I ensure you i wont repeat that mistake again. Thank You! Yasht101 :) 01:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yasht101,

You seem like a nice editor, and are obviously smart. I am sure that you will learn quickly, in fact, more quickly than some "editors" who seem not to have progressed much beyond line editing and schoolmarming despite years of opportunities.

I actually liked the smiley face in your signature. :) But, I suppose that "rules are rules". :(

I saw that you were from India. :) have a lot of friends from India, and in fact my profession is statistics, where we all look to the Indian Statistical Institute for guidance!

Best regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much sir for that. I m really willing to improve myself and want to become a good editor like you (I saw your contributions) one day. If I make any mistake that you find then please let me know. It will be helpful for me to improvise. Happy editing! Yasht101 :) 11:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yasht101! The only advice that I would ask you to think about is this: Young editors often edit on Wikipedia and become distracted from more important tasks, particularly studying and learning new facts and skills. Good luck!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'll take care of it. I m a ranker of my school so there is always huge pressure from my family, relatives and teachers on me that I'll do very good in studies. I sometimes get badly frustrated and at that time wikipedia really helps me a lot. You can say that now wikipedia is my drug and I cant live without it. It has helped me in becoming more polite, sincere and thoughtful in my real life. Right now, i have my summer vacations so there will be a lot of edits by me as my exams just ended 5 days before. Yasht101 :) 11:40, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations on your achievements! You have every right to give yourself a well-deserved break, especially when you spend it helping others here! :)

Best regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:12, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

My list

I have created a list and i have included ur name in it. I hope u dont mind that. You can view it over Here! Yasht101 :) 01:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Sir, I am honored! :)  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh sir, I m no sir. I am in my teenage. Yasht101 :) 09:09, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Amartya K. Sen was young when Tagore named him "Amartya". John Stuart Mill was young when he began writing books for his father. Just work hard, have fun, and resist the temptation to fudge the truth.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:17, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thats really inspiring. I cant be great like them, but atleast can do something good with my life. Yasht101 :) 09:23, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

John Stuart Mill was not happy until later in life, and then he was saddened after his wife died. Some geniuses suffer from always wanting to please their father or mother for the rest of their lives, even after their parents are dead.

It's a good idea to spend more time with your calculus book, Sen, and Mill, and most importantly your friends and family (even if it means that you have less time on Wikipedia). Have you read Sen and Drèze on poverty in India? C. R. Rao has an inspiring book, Statistics and truth: Putting chance to work, that you may enjoy. He starts off by thanking his mother for waking him at 4 a.m. (when his mind was freshest) to study. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for my late reply, I just missed out your username in my watchlist. My mom doesnt have time to wake me up early so I myself get up at 4:30 0r 5 and start my work. I havent heard of the book that you mentioned. I'll buy it next time when I visit the book-store. Can you briefly describe what exactly is in that book? I m sorry if I m wasting your time or bothering you. Yasht101 :) 16:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yasht101!

I'm a statistician, and so when I see an intelligent young person I mention that statistics is an interesting profession and useful tool for anybody.

Rao's book is an interesting lecture for a general audience. I trust Google Books or World Scientific have brief discussions of it. Rao begins by discussing some ideas of Charles Sanders Peirce, about three modes of reasoning, deduction, induction, and abduction, although I forget whether Rao discusses Peirce in detail.

It might be worthwhile just to begin with Peirce, whose work appears freely at many sites, including Wikisource.

Proceeds from Rao's book benefits the Third World Academy of Science, which sounds like a good cause to me. (A baseball coach and mathematician also recommends waking at 4 am in the summer, when it is cool and quiet....)

I have long been a fan of Professor Sen, whose good sense and good humor make his super-human intellect non-intimidating! Many years ago I remember picking up Sen's article on "Millions of missing women" and thinking about all the scientific/statistical questions it raised!

Cheers,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:25, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Discipline Global Mobile

Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Warm greetings

I stopped by here to tell you that I took your "oppose" most seriously in the Snotty/Scotty RfA. My decision to support was with a trace of reluctance, for that reason as well as some earlier negative interactions of my own. But the editor has shown clear signs of maturing and taking previous criticism to heart. As have you, my friend.

Above, I have read your efforts to welcome, advise and mentor a young editor from India. Your kind words and informed comments about his country impressed me greatly, and I have no doubt that the favorable impact they had on that young person will be long lasting.

A few moments ago, my wife showed me a friendly and encouraging comment that a young man wrote in her high school yearbook over 40 years ago. My wife felt very isolated and insecure in those years, and was greatly impressed and cheered by that brief note. She is again in touch with him through Facebook, as he is a music professional and one of our sons is an aspiring semi-professional musician. Kind, supportive words can be remembered for decades. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Cullen328,

Thanks for your kind words! However, "mentoring" would be too strong! I tried to find a nice way to say (while being honest) that editing Wikipedia is a poor use of time at his age---my usual (and according to many, unwarranted) paternalism.

About my "improving". All of us have our bad days, and I was irritable a few weeks ago because I was editing too much while under real world stress. However, the Discipline Global Mobile article is now GA and led today's DYKs, so perhaps the effort was worth it.

Regarding the RfA, I cannot comment fully per WP:NPA, apart from saying that (whatever one thinks of Keepscases) it is another thing entirely to try to "poke" Fetchcomms in the eye, to state contempt for the NPA blocks, etc. I would prefer the candidate to state that he will stay away from articles and editor-conflicts, and then I would be the first---or 100th now---to applaud his great contributions elsewhere and support him without reservation.

Cheers,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:04, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

The erudition and kindness of your remarks cannot be called paternalism, and in my view, your recommendations were at least heading in the direction of constructive mentoring. Because I am unfamiliar with the specifics of the Keepscases/Fetchcomms incident, I will refrain from commenting. Instead of taking the time to delve into that unpleasantness, I will instead read Discipline Global Mobile. Congratulations on the GA and DYK. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

What an outstanding article about an interesting and worthy topic! I thought that it would be about a cell phone company. I was a founder of and participant in a cooperative record store in the suburbs of Detroit from 1970 to 1972, and I remember selling King Crimson albums very well back then. "It was 40 years ago today . . ." Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm adding my delighted grins here, too, about the way you've been communicating with that young editor :D It's been a joy to be reading. Cullen – I still have, somewhere, my copy of In the Court of the Crimson King. Wonderful stuff. Pesky (talk) 19:08, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Aah, Cullen, you were in Detroit in 1972. You must have been familiar with an alphabet soup of sectarians. Have you read Detroit, I Do Mind Dying: A Study of Urban Revolution with its many fascinating chapters, e.g. Mr. Justin Ravitz, Marxist Judge of Recorder's Court? Judge Ravitz required that everybody stand when the jury entered the chambers! :)  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I left the Detroit area in 1972, before Justin Ravitz was elected as a judge, but I was very familiar with Ravitz when I was a teenage radical, because his law firm was noted for defence of black militants and leftists. When I was young, people like George W. Crockett, Jr., Ken Cockrel (father of a recent Detrot mayor), Frank Joyce and Sheila Murphy were the "heavy hitters", and all are profiled in that book, which I haven't read but should. Joyce headed a group called "People Against Racism" and they had an unofficial youth affiliate called "Youth for Peace, Freedom and Justice" that I joined about the time of my 17th birthday. Groups like the Dodge Revolutionary Union Movement, the Motor City Labor League and the League of Revolutionary Black Workers were the "workerist" groups that were widely discussed among my friends, although we were white, lower-middle class and working class New Left radicals, and had little connection with the big factories or the unions. We heard stories about the Ford Hunger March (my article) and the strikes and sit-ins of the 30s from the old timers. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia for World Heritage

I need your assistance in developing and spreading a wikiproject. Can you help me in developing and spreading this page in wikipedia: Wikipedia:Wikipedia for World Heritage

Thank you and Happy editing! Yasht101 :) 06:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I think that such political campaigns (here aimed at influencing a government of governments) are better conducted off-Wikipedia. I agree that such a campaign is worthwhile, and I suppose that Facebook would be a good place to organize this campaign.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Previous accounts of another editor.

Hi KW. I see you've asked for history of a user's previous account. Could I request that you remove that query from the RfA, asking at the user's talk page if you feel it necessary, as it is the sort of thing that leads to a lot of the "drama" that you find at RfAs and isn't related to that RfA. As it happens, I'd also suggest that you don't even bother with the question - if the user is under a WP:CLEANSTART he will be under no obligation to tell you, but there should be nothing to worry about, if they're avoiding a near block/ban, then they are unlike to answer truthfully. Thanks for your time Worm^TT · (talk) 14:24, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I would not want to speculate whether the person be evading a ban or block or whether they be unlikely honestly to answer, but a reply would be informative.

The editor compared this RfA, which has only my opposition, to torture! His comparison already moved beyond pathos skipping bathos into hysteria. Consider my question as a humble attempt at helping Nick Bottom return to normal form. :)

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:07, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, I believe that torture in this case is more than a little excessive on the wording! I believe SW is doing exceptionally well, which shows how much further he's come - I opposed last time but didn't feel the need to this time. I have had a dream, past the wit of man to say what dream it was. At this point I couldn't give a Puck. Worm^TT · (talk) 15:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Well said, sir! :D  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)