User talk:Tumadoireacht

archive pages 2010 to 2013 May are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tumadoireacht/Archive_1 --— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 14:08, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

See circumcision page: comment "Should have a section on Effects on Function and Effects on Sexuality because Circumcision is both a Surgery and Body Modification"

Hi, if you could can you read this comment that is on the circumcision talk page and post feedback. I think it is important for the page to recognize that circumcision may have long term effects on sexuality and function if we are to get anywhere. The research on these topics is currently neutral (overall is saying that it generally does not affect sexual function,) however, I have reason to believe that this may change in the coming years. I think that the addition of these two subsections on the page would help because we would be recognizing that circumcision is both a body modification and a surgery and that its implications last for a lifetime. Since it is both of these things I believe it is important that we do attempt to describe the long term effects on your body that it might have.

JohnPRsrcher (talk) 15:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I have replied John. Please put comments at page bottom not top thanks.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 16:10, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Unreadable

Your archived talk page is an unreadable mass of text, please fix it. Thanks.--79.232.93.103 (talk) 11:38, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Moldova

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Talk:Human

Hi, Tumadoireacht. I wonder if you'd consider rephrasing this comment. I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but the wording you used seems likely to ignite a totally off-topic argument on that talk page. It's a contentious topic, and your questions can be asked—and answered—using non-inflammatory language. Fwiw, my answers, after considerable zooming and enhancement, are (1) "probably not, but impossible to say for sure" and (2) it's not terribly important, especially since the image is ambiguous. Rivertorch (talk) 05:08, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

HI RT - more beige wording now substituted in the interest of quelling the clamour - if it is "not terribly important" why then do you think it will attract heated debate? One man's covenant with the lord is another man's mutilation I suppose. Promoters of the chop are keen to normalize it in all sorts of settings. WP must resist such partisan manipulation and stick to its principles--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 07:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

It's just one of those perennially controversial topics. Many people feel strongly about it and for some reason decide to display their strong feelings on Wikipedia. Those who disagree display strong feelings of their own, and before you know it, otherwise reasonable people are foaming at the mouth. I won't disagree with anything you just said, but I will suggest that over-the-top rhetoric neither builds an encyclopedia nor advances anyone's cause. So I really appreciate your toning it down. I wasn't sure how you'd react to my request, and I'm relieved. Thanks! Rivertorch (talk) 09:11, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Tumadoireacht for changing your word choice at Talk:Human to avoid being unnecessarily inflammatory in consideration of the editors there. Would you please extend the same courtesy to your fellow editors at Talk:Circumcision and avoid unnecessarily inflammatory language ("chopping" and "lopping") there as well, for exactly the same reasons you have agreed to at Talk:Human? Zad68 11:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Different kettle of fish Zad - i do tire of typing out circumcision and the resistance of you and your cohort to a balanced article behoves reference in expression to what actually occurs in the procedure. I believe the lighthearted lop and chop enrich debate.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 21:56, 4 June 2013 (UTC

I'm having a hard time believing that you don't think the use of terms like "chop" is equally inflammatory. But, if it hadn't been made clear before, allow me to please make it clear now: using such terms is unnecessarily inflammatory, and whatever humor value they might hold is easily outweighed by the distraction they cause. You've made your own personal views on circumcision very clear, and there is no rule that you have to like - or even respect - the subject of the article you're editing, but you do have to respect the sources. Is there any reason why you can't just use the same term used overwhelmingly by the reliable sourcing: "circumcision"? (If "circumcision" is too tiring to type out, why not use "circ" instead.) I'm asking you to please do so out of respect for the reliable sources covering the topic, and the other editors at the article who would like to stay focused on the sources and content without also having to deal with the intentional use of distracting, inflammatory language - This is a matter of WP:CIVILITY, which is a pillar of Wikipedia. It'd be very much appreciated. Zad68 01:39, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Zad for sharing your opinions,beliefs,interpretations and characterizations repeatedly and at length once again. There is the ongoing danger of presenting those opinions of yours as if they were co-terminus with policy. Try to avoid this - it is transparent and demeaning. You say inflammatory, I say clarity and brevity. Your conflating sources and clarity is further obfustification. --— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 09:34, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

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Diving??

Interesting choice of username :) - Alison ^❤ 08:37, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Regeneration!

Hey man, I don't know if you've been unfortunate enough to be given the 'snip', but if so, check this page out: Foregen...interesting stuff. --(Moshe) מֹשֶׁה‎ 05:24, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

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Life, or Something Like It

Tumadoireacht, are you frum, or were you ever? --(Moshe) מֹשֶׁה‎ 14:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I have been called A Frump and have considered worshipping Crum -perhaps I was frum in a past life ?--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 21:41, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

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Dispute resolution

It may be necessary to take our concerns over at the circumcision talk page to Dispute resolution noticeboard. I don't think those arguing with us are willing to budge. Most of the remarks made by supporters of the current state of the article say things along the lines of, "it's fine as it is" or "I agree with Zad". Obviously we won't be making much headway with editors posting nothing but countenance for the existing revision without any arguments regarding our concerns. Let me know your feelings on this. ScienceApe (talk) 14:47, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree with ScienceApe, we should try making use of DRN. Suggest that we do it in small pieces, take one particular edit phrased as "Propose changing article content from X to Y". Be aware that DRN won't take a case if there isn't evidence of a significant attempt to resolve the issue through discussion on the article Talk page first, but if you think we've discussed it enough there and we're stuck, we can try DRN. Sure would love to get closure one way or another on several of these perennial discussion points so we can move on to editing other things. Zad68 15:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I think we are stuck. We've already presented the case, but no progress is being made. ScienceApe (talk) 16:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

OK ScienceApe can you clarify: from the looks of it there were three suggestions being discussed, 1) Remove all the content from the lead regarding medical effects (HIV, HPVs, complications, etc.); 2) Copyedit to tighten the wording on that; 3) Specify what is meant in the lead by "Circumcision does not appear to have a negative impact on sexual function." (what you've been describing as having a "weasel word" problem). Which one was the one you'd like to pursue at DRN first? Zad68 17:24, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

This discussion is not really appropriate to this page. With ScienceApe's permission I would like to move it to the talk page of the article.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 19:51, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Please do. ScienceApe (talk) 20:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes that's all correct, the issues can be presented in the order you listed them here. ScienceApe (talk) 20:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

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Is this something which would interest you?

Hi Tumadoireacht. Found this news article on forced circumcision in Australia. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/dhs-wants-teen-returned-to-mum-who-held-him-down-while-circumcised-by-witchdoctor/story-fni0fit3-1226810864626 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.20.167.112 (talk) 01:25, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

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July 2014

Tumadoireacht, do not speculate about the personal aspects of editors, as you did in this remark. This is expressly disallowed per WP:CIVIL and WP:TPG. Zad68 19:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Comments

Tumadoireacht, regarding your comment here, first I'm unsure how you arrived at any of the constructions you've come up with here for my name. On my User page it says "please feel free to call me Zach," which seems clear enough to me. I'd be happy to entertain any suggestions as to how I could make that even more clear for you, although you are the only editor I can remember who has ever had so much trouble. Second, using a {{hat}} is not an administrative function, and it isn't blocking or blanking. The content I {{hat}}ted was exactly as I described: airing of personal opinions and personal attacks, both disallowed by WP:NOTAFORUM and WP:CIVIL. You should read both of those, although unfortunately they are both quite a bit more complicated than my User page. Zad68

Circumcision

I share your impression of a biased admin board of the article circumcision. You wrote: "Zad it night be best if you handed over the blanking and blocking decisions on discussion of this topic to another editor, ideally one who is not so heavily invested in this article in its current state. as you are. The omission of key information about circumcision over a long period now from this article is a phenomenon that cannot go unremarked or quickly hidden forever. Please attempt instead to discuss the cogent points raised concerning human rights, mutilation, violence and rape."

I would like to ask you to continue your case and enter the wikipedia bureaucracy and conflict solutions to change the blockade of objective Preconscious (talk) 08:32, 28 July 2014 (UTC)content in that article.

Preconscious it's unclear what your "objective" is here, but if you're having an issue with another editor's behavior, the first thing you should do is approach that editor on their User Talk page and discuss it with them. My User Talk page is here: User Talk:Zad68. If you still have issues and you think the editor is being disruptive, an appropriate forum to discuss that would be WP:ANI. Please be aware that at WP:ANI, the behavior of everyone involved (including yourself) will be reviewed. Zad68 13:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Do not be inhibited by procedural niceties as interpreted by any other editor Preconscious. I have felt for so long , a lonely voice in a sea of concerted editors of a certain ilk and mindset on that article. I am not sure where to proceed next. I hope that some editors with the courage and resources to challenge the strange orthodoxy on that article arise and assist us in making it a more truthful article with fewer key omissions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tumadoireacht (talk • contribs)

A bit of cleanup

Hi Tumadoireacht, I made some changes to your edit to protect your privacy. If you want to protect it further you can make a request to WP:OVERSIGHT. Zad68 00:18, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

• Oversighted ;) - Alison ^❤ 00:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

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October 2014

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Shay Healy

Hi Tumadoireacht. Re your addition of a sentence to this page detailing three songs written for Billy Connolly, any chance of citing a source for this? It's not contentious or anything, but it would be nice to have some evidence that it is true. Ta. Jim Bruce (talk) 11:27, 1 November 2014 (UTC) Actually, I have re-edited your addition and moved it up follow the reference to Connolly. So if you have a source perhaps you could insert it there. Ta again. Jim Bruce (talk) 11:37, 1 November 2014 (UTC) Done.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 14:50, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

A few notes

Hey Tumadoireacht, A couple things: I wanted to let you know I saw your note on my User Talk, but I removed it because I want to encourage you to use the relevant Talk pages as the appropriate place for content discussion. In this case, you've tried out a content change and more than one editor has undone your change and provided reasons in the edit summaries. At this point if you're still interested in pursuing it, it is up to you to open a discussion on the relevant Talk page and provide your own reasons why you think it's an improvement, it is not up to other editors to do that for you. This is a very widely-accepted editing practice on Wikipedia, please see WP:BRD for more info. I've also noticed that you've made a number of statements recently that appear to misrepresent either (in content discussions) the source or (in behavior discussions) the actual events, could you please take more care in your assertions. Finally, please be aware that Wikipedia has a rule against canvassing, see WP:CANVASS. Not saying you've necessarily crossed the line into canvassing, but just wanted to be sure you're aware. Thanks... Zad68 15:56, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Please don't copy my signed comments to other locations without my permission, as you did here. Don't use content Talk pages for something other than discussing the content, it wasn't appropriate to copy the comments I made to you above to an article Talk page. Use the relevant content Talk page for the discussion you're trying to have. I really don't understand your most recent series of edits. Zad68 19:32, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

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Circ

Hi: thanks for pointing that out, I have watchlisted the article and will participate in a discussion with those who would remove that information. :) Eddymason (talk) 20:40, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Tumadoireacht = Nostradamus?

Your prophecy has come true. Looking over the edit history, I do not believe that this material can be added successfully. Right now, the material is unsuitable because it is "poorly sourced", as if these claims are somehow in doubt. I see you are on your way to a topic ban. I would advise that you disengage from the whole thing. Wikipedia can be incomplete for a while. In the meantime, this is a fascinating phenomenon. It has apparently even been noted in a BBC article, linked from the top of the talk page... as if to say "we are doing this and there is nothing you can do about it." I am not inclined to argue with these people. Eddymason (talk) 22:35, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Blocked one week

If you can't see where your behavior on Talk:Circumcision is tendentious, disruptive and combative, there is little I can do to help you understand. I have blocked you for one week. Please take this time to read WP:BATTLEGROUND, reevaluate your approach to the article and consider whether this part of Wikipedia is best for you to be editing at all.

Next time, try not to be so obvious with your sockpuppetry too? I'm being lenient in mostly ignoring it – I could have quite easily justified a much longer duration block for the sockpuppetry (as well as for the disruptive editing).

WP:GAB has advice on how to appeal a block if you wish to do so. NW (Talk) 17:42, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• It appears to me that this editor stopped editing the Circumcision article a couple of days ago. Why block them now? Or, since it's been a couple of days, why not a five day block instead of seven? NuclearWarfare (ping) Eddymason (talk) 18:11, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• I could have rather easily justified an indefinite block or a three month block. Since 7 days is pretty short, I'm inclined to just leave it at this. NW (Talk) 18:20, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The block is ludicirous. The accusation of sockpuppetry is outrageous. Appeal looks pointless. The article is still awful and apparently likely to remain so. Ah well.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 13:51, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

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AN/I

I have posted to WP:AN/I about your recent editing behaviour. Thanks. Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 10:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

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Circumcision !vote

I see that the words that you used with reference to this controversy, against topic-banning an editor, are the words that I sometimes use. At first I actually thought that they were my words in a different thread, then I saw your signature. I am satisfied to see that another editor shares my opinion as to when ANI should refer long-going controversies to ArbCom. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:33, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Topic ban on Circumcision-related articles and their talk pages

Tumadoireacht, I have determined that there is a consensus to topic-ban you indefinitely (not infinitely, of course) from Circumcision-related articles and their talk pages, broadly construed. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 01:05, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the "not infinitely of course" I think I WAS getting the bit between my teeth there somewhat, and probably spending too much time and energy on combat/self defense and less on learning to be a more adept editor. You are probably the wrong person to ask but would an appeal be throwing good money after bad at this time ?

I was a bit disappointed that you excised my last entry as I think it was more useful than rant but "upon mature reflection" to quote Brian Lenihan Snr. it probably ensured my demise !--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 08:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

• Well, you know, it was a bit out of order and certainly didn't help you. I doubt that it would be very useful to try right now; typical is that the victim condemned wait for six month, though I have to tell you in all honesty that I can't cite the letter of the law, if there is one. I can call in an expert, if you like: NE Ent, please open our directory and flip to the correct page, if you can. Drmies (talk) 04:08, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
  • WP:SO NE Ent 10:00, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

For those editors visiting this page who take an interest -there is an attempt taking place at present to change the outcome of this hearing to make it a no-no to even discuss Circumcision here on my talk page or on any other editor's talk page. This is not what was voted upon nor what was decided rightly or wrongly by an 8 to 5 margin of votes . Unsurprisingly the attempt is led by the redoubtable and ubiquitous admin/ediotor Zad/Zach.

Zad/Zachariah rather sneakily also failed to inform me ( as WP policy requires for any discussion involving an editor at ANI) on this page of this rushed backdoor attempt to alter both the proposal and outcome post-voting,.

What is the standard penalty for such a serious breach of WP rules and etiquette - warning on his talk page ? - where are the WP police when you need one? Nemo iudex in causa sua ? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Very shoddy and disappointing behaviour from such a senior admin. Does such failure reveal his own perception of the poverty of his argument ? Here it is

https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=8

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.Perhaps it is not the state of Denmark that is the problem.

--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 04:38, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Minority language

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Circumcision

You seem to be having some difficulty understanding what your topic ban means.

You are topic banned from circumcision, broadly construed. That means a ban from discussing the topic of circumcision on Wikipedia, period. No discussion of circumcision, related concepts, peripheral ideas, whatever. If you have any problem understanding this then ask at WP:AN before engaging in any specific discussion, because if you make any further edits to Wikipedia pages, in any namespace, related to circumcision, without a specific exemption in advance, you will be blocked.

I have absolutely no interest in the validity or otherwise of your comments or proposed edits, all I care about is that they have been reviewed by others and there is a consensus that the way in which you engage with others on this topic is not on.

You can appeal the ban to WP:BASC or WP:AN. You may not edit on this topic, anywhere, in any part of Wikipedia, without the topic ban being vacated.

I trust that this is suitably unambiguous and that you now fully understand what a topic ban means. Feel free to ping me on my talk page, or ask for clarification at WP:AN, if you are unsure, but do remember that you should do this before making any edits or comments that anybody might reasonably construe as violating the ban, because otherwise you may be blocked.

I have also posted this to WP:AN in case you wish to discuss it.Guy (Help!) 22:17, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

YOU seem to be having some difficulty understanding what my topic ban means. In altering the terms of what was voted upon Guy, and then imposing a different restriction than the one previously decided upon(editing circumcision-related article and their talk pages), you are "pushing the boundaries" of your powers as an administrator. I hope that we may establish an "unambiguous" confirmation of this in the near ffuture.

On your own talk page, you said, a week ago, in regard to a question regarding freedom of speech on one's own user page for the subject- banned

"Meh. In his own user space? Nobody cares. Let me know if it spreads beyond that. Trying to stop people venting in their own user space only ever escalates things, and letting them vent can be cathartic."

Have you now altered this opinion ?

The tone and content of your "Would you like to know what happens/spiel/truth/disrupting" paragraph is particularly patronising and inappropriate. It also misses the above point. Ride on pale caballeros ! At present we do not agree on much. I should mention that I used to own and operate a Watsonia bicycle sidecar and had a similar fleet of bikes - expecting no special consideration on either account ! --— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 05:57, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Topic ban

As a result of a discussion recorded here, you are indefinitely banned from all editing or discussion relating to circumcision or any issue related to circumcision, broadly construed, on any page whatever. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 15:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

That discussion you refer to was not convened in accordance with WP rules, and thus has not the right to impose the modified topic ban you mention. The indecent haste and the passing around of the baton between 4 admins stinks too. I abide by the original article ban for the present, and will consider my options in appealing these two different restrictions.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 16:34, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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