Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/"13-10"

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Deor (talk) 13:14, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"13-10"

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This is an unremarkable football match, which took place during a league season. If this was the final of a major tournament, then the match would be notable, but there are upsets in league football all the time. ~~Furthermore, the article is totally unreferenced~~. Bikeroo (talk) 07:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Bikeroo (talk) 10:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to add some references, by all means do so. "unremarkable" you do realize that App State has a article about them about being Michigan right? Then by your logic, that should be deleted too. Upsets all the time? I do hope you know this was the first by a Mid-American Conference team to do so. League? you do realize this college football, I'm guessing you're a Michigan an and wish to delete this because the team lost. I did add some refences bu you had to delete them.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Woody72691 (talk • contribs) 07:53, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure it was the first time? Bowling Green beat Northwestern in the 2003 Motor City Bowl, and I could probably go back farther. Appalachian State was at that time a 1-AA school, and that upset received far more coverage than this upset. p b p 14:21, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

PBP, it is not the first time a MAC team beat a Big 10 team; not even close. See the Miami Redskins/Redhawks history link below. Miami (the one in Oxford, not Coral Gables) was notorious for picking off an over-confident Big 10 team every two or three years in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:00, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the Miami Redskins have beaten Indiana three times, Michigan once, Michigan State once, Northwestern six times, Purdue three times; Bowling Green has beaten Minnesota once, Northwestern twice, and Purdue twice; Ohio has beaten Illinois three times, Indiana once, Minnesota once, and Penn State once; Western Michigan has beaten Illinois once, Iowa twice, Michigan State twice, and Wisconsin once. These are examples, mind you, not a comprehensive list. I cannot recall an occasion when a MAC team was a favorite against a Big 10 team, but MAC teams have beaten Big 10 teams more than 30 times. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Dirtlawyer1:, thanks for doing the grunt work. Looks to be about what I expected...MAC team beats a Big Ten team every 2-3 years. Since most Big Ten teams play 1-2 MAC teams annually, that makes sense p b p 21:31, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Purplebackpack89: See "Cradle of Coaches" -- it's something every knowledgeable CFB fan should know. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Individual regular season college football games are not inherently notable per WP:SPORTSEVENT, and such individual CFB games must generally satisfy the general notability guidelines to be suitable for inclusion, and that also means that coverage must exceed WP:ROUTINE post-game coverage of typical individual games. Pursuant to established precedents and the consensus of WP:WikiProject College football, individual regular season games should have some historical significance for a stand-alone article. Articles regarding individual regular season games are disfavored and discouraged; content regarding such individual regular season games generally should be incorporated into the parent articles about the season of the individual teams (see 2008 Toledo Rockets football team and 2008 Michigan Wolverines football team). And for the record, what distinguishes this game from the 2007 Appalachian State-Michigan upset is Toledo is a Division I FBS team; Appalachian State is a Division I FCS team that upset an FBS team -- and that generated significant coverage that continues to this day. Also, I'm old enough to remember other MAC upsets of Big 10 teams in the past; Toledo was not the first (see Miami RedHawks football#History for examples). Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 10:52, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Here's a list of the applicable notability guidelines for interested editors:

1. WP:GNG: "significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject should be included. A more in-depth discussion might conclude that the topic actually should not have a stand-alone article".

2. WP:NSPORTS/WP:SPORTSEVENT: "Regular season games in professional and college leagues are not inherently notable." Further, it provides that "a game that is widely considered by independent reliable sources to be notable, outside routine coverage of each game, especially if the game received front page coverage outside of the local areas involved (e.g. Pacers–Pistons brawl, 2009 Republic of Ireland vs France football matches, or the Blood in the Water match)" may be suitable for a stand-alone article.

3. WP:ROUTINE: "Routine events such as sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc. may be better covered as part of another article, if at all."

4. WP:NOTNEWS: "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion. For example, routine news reporting on things like announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia."

5. WP:Notability (events)/WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE: "Although notability is not temporary, meaning that coverage does not need to be ongoing for notability to be established, a burst or spike of news reports does not automatically make an incident notable. Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 11:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Dirtlawyer. Cbl62 (talk) 16:19, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dirtlawyer's thorough analysis. I was tempted to say merge to 2008 NCAA Division I FBS football season but I doubt that "13-10" is a probable search target, and anyway it is nowhere near specific enough to identify the subject. The content here could be summarized in the "key matchups" table on the season page though. Ivanvector (talk) 17:07, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:21, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:21, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:21, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:21, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move to 2008 Toledo vs. Michigan football game, and then Merge with 2008 Toledo Rockets football team. While the current article title is garbage, this game is definitely notable in relation to the 2008 Toledo season article, and it contains information and details not currently included in the season article. They should be preserved and included in the 2008 Toledo season article. Ejgreen77 (talk) 22:25, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: the page has been moved from "13-10" to 13-10 leaving a redirect which should also be deleted. Ivanvector (talk) 22:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been moved yet again, to 2008 Toledo vs. Michigan Football Game. -- Bikeroo (talk) 08:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Dirtlawyer. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:22, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dirtlawyer. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There's no reason this football game is particularly notable. It's not a bowl game, it's not even a game between ranked opponents. So a MAC team beat a Big Ten team? We don't need articles on every time that happened. p b p 14:19, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dirtlawyer. There have been 1000s (if not 10s of 1000s) of games that have ended with this score. Shall we list all of them at an article with this title? WP:INDISCRIMINATE would seem to apply as well. MarnetteD|Talk 15:36, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSEVENT not enough coverage to distinguish it from another game, as DirtLawyer said this isn't the first MAC upset of a Big-10 team and had nothing to distinguish it. As opposed to the coverage of the 2012 Packers–Seahawks officiating controversy, the game had no lasting effects.--Church ^Talk 19:25, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete While I love great upsets, especially by the MAC, this was just another run-of-the-mill NCAA football game. — X96lee15 (talk) 19:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dirtlawyer. Becky Sayles (talk) 01:32, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.