Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2021 anti-Pakistan protests

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 17:02, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 anti-Pakistan protests

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Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Anti Pakistan protests are common in Afghanistan, but there's no indication that anything that happened this year stands apart and this doesn't really rise to a notable level.. This is an attempt to use Wikipedia for propaganda. Saqib (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Afghanistan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:RAPID and WP:GNG. I agree that "Anti Pakistan protests are common in Afghanistan" but not in Iran, US, Germany, Austria, Canada, etc. over a particular reason. Shankargb (talk) 13:22, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect To 2021 Afghan protests per my original edit. The article doesn't have enough to stand on it's own and this part of the larger protests in Afghanistan since the Taliban took over. The grievances of the protesters is over Pakistan's support for the Taliban not just the fact this is it's own anti-Pakistan protests. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Afghan protests are specific to Taliban rule, while anti-Pakistan protests are specific to Pakistan's interference in Afghanistan. They are different than each other. Both subjects have got significant amount of coverage, independent of each other. GenuineArt (talk) 17:40, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The protests are taking place in Afghanistan for the reason concerning Afghanistan's latest debacle. They are not individual protests. They are part of something larger. The protests are against the Taliban and it's supporter, Pakistan. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Shankargb and also per my rationale above. GenuineArt (talk) 17:40, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – article doesn't meet WP:EVENTCRITERIA as there is no historical significance of these protest and topic doesn't have WP:DEPTH coverage. Artt also doesn't meet WP:GNG due to lack of WP:SIGCOV and reliability of sources can be further argued (reliability of Indian sources about Pakistan and vice versa is nearly zero; they usually publish highly politicized and propaganda info to please their audiences). WP:RAPID doesn't really apply here. Editor arguing WP:RAPID, need to look at WP:DELAY too. Radioactive (talk) 19:38, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Abdulhaseebatd:} I am sure an undisclosed paid COI editor like you has no knowledge of the policies you are citing. The subject meets all criteria listed at WP:EVENTCRITERIA. Existence of sources like Al-Jazeera, SCMP, IranIntl, and other thousands of sources providing significant coverage to this subject on frequent basis easily debunks your entirely misleading misrepresentation of sources and policies. AnM2002 (talk) 08:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@AnM2002: bro, you better learn WP: CIVIL. Keeping uncivilized behavior can lead to your block. ☢️ Radioactive 🎃 (talk) 10:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ per Radioactive (talk) rationale above. Ngrewal1 (talk) 00:28, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ngrewal1: But Radioactive, an undisclosed paid editor, is simply misleading others as clear from his comment. AnM2002 (talk) 08:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Struck double vote. AnM2002 (talk) 18:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to 2021 Afghan protests fails WP:EVENTCRITERIA. No evidence of notability. Thepharoah17 (talk) 05:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thepharoah17: It meets every single criteria laid out at WP:EVENTCRITERIA:

Criteria 1: "Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect." It meets "general notability guideline" and WP:LASTING since it is getting significant coverage for months.[1][2]
Criteria 2: "Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below).": With Al-Jazeera, SCMP, Iran Intl, Hindustan Times, and many others covering the subject, this is a no-brainer.
Criteria 3: "Events having lesser coverage or more limited scope may or may not be notable; the descriptions below provide guidance to assess the event.": The significant coverage spanning large variety of sources is already evidenced by the present version of the article and my above explanation.
Criteria 4: "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance.": Again, a no-brainer since the subject is getting significant coverage for months.

In sum, you will benefit from actually reading WP:EVENTCRITERIA. AnM2002 (talk) 08:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The coverage you're referring to refers only to the coverage of a particular protest immediately after the protest ends. WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE says "Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article." Is there evidence of coverage of an event (eg protest) months after that particular event ended? I don't see that for now.VR _talk 18:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are many sources covering the protests apart from those mentioned for a mere idea. All of the recent events surrounding the aftermath of the War in Afghanistan are relatively new developments, though that does not mitigate their notability because they fulfill the necessary requirement to achive their own article. These protests are a phenomenon that is occurring all over the globe for a specific reason. This article passes WP:GNG for sure. AnM2002 (talk) 03:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per my explanations above. AnM2002 (talk) 18:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for now. Clearly distinct from 2021 Afghan protests as many of these aren't happening in Afghanistan. Also seems notable as far. Maybe the article needs a better title though. Super Ψ Dro 13:22, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Afghan_protests has an international section.VR _talk 19:22, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above. NOTNEWS does not apply because the protests are going on for more than several months. Subject is apparently more notable than many other similar protest articles that we have, like 2014 anti-war protests in Russia. ~~ Agletarang
Keep: Prima facie meets WP:GNG. — Vaibhavafro ^💬 09:40, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

*Merge I think that this should be merged into Anti-Pakistan sentiment MullahBalawar (talk) 7:25, 11 September 2021 (PTC)Strike sockpuppet. Shankargb (talk) 18:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Clearly notable, receiving coverage for three months now. The misrepresentation of WP:EVENTCRITERIA here by delete supporters is grossly unconvincing. TheRollBoss001 (talk)
Delete/Merge to 2021 Afghan protests. This looks like an unnecessary fork (possibly even a WP:POVFORK). Protests against Pakistan almost always happen as part of protests against the Taliban. Is there any protest against Pakistan that did not condemn the Taliban? These are both essentially the same topic. Once merged, the anti-Pakistan element of these protests should be given WP:DUE weight at 2021 Afghan protests.VR _talk 19:22, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable and independent subject that has gained coverage independent of much newer protests limited to Afghanistan. Any suggestion for merge/delete/redirect will only WP:CENSOR the importance of this distinct subject. Shrikanthv (talk) 10:22, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Apparently meets WP:N. I would say the nomination seems highly inaccurate even if compared with the version of that time. Abhi88iisc (talk) 16:07, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with 2021 Afghan protests as outlined and explained above by VR. Ngrewal1 (talk) 15:49, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article cites no credible international sources about the "anti-Pakistani protests". Most of the coverage seems to be about street protests organised by Afghan nationals in India, as reported amongst Indian sources. Per WP:NOTNEWS, an event needs to have lasting significance to be deemed notable which is absent in this case. The protests that were held within Afghanistan are already covered in 2021 Afghan protests. The rest are small, non-notable and haven't gathered much traction from the mainstream media coverage I've tried searching. Mar4d (talk) 10:36, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Utter falsehood.. Even a casual glance at 2021_anti-Pakistan_protests#References shows the article is based on a multiplicity of WP:RS including the Al Jazeera, Asia Times, Iran International, Hindustan Times, India Today clearly demonstrating the extent of coverage that the RS have accorded to the subject, which involves vehement calls for sanctioning Pakistan for being an unrepentant patron of Talibani terrorism, and the same is not confined to one country but has steadily pervaded to almost all the continents. Hell, it even cites the Pakistani publication Dawn, and that most convincingly betrays the hollowness of your specious and misleading argument. 2409:4050:2E0A:42EE:25CD:F8DE:B4E2:5371 (talk) 07:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect The ant-Pakistan protests are not focused on Pakistan. They are anti-Taliban protests with the secondary focus being Pakistan, so this article should be merged/redirected into 2021 Afghan protests. RealKnockout (talk) 17:18, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. They started before 2021 Afghan protests which are limited to Afghanistan. "Anti-Pakistan" protests seek sanction against Pakistan while "Afghan protests" only want end of Taliban's rule. Anti-Pakistan protests can't be "secondary" to something that started much later. Shankargb (talk) 01:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RealKnockout, that's hogwash. RS unequivocally tells you that the Afghans protestors have unrelentingly and vehemently sought sanctions on Pakistan for its unrepentant patronship of Talibani terrorism. Frankly, your comment makes no sense. 2409:4050:2E0A:42EE:25CD:F8DE:B4E2:5371 (talk) 07:15, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are they not isolated incidents rather than a global protest movement against Pakistan? WP:NOTNEWS exists. RealKnockout (talk) 12:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not isolated but frequently covered by range of reliable sources. 2020 Libyan protests, Protests against Iraq War and thousands others were not organized by single entity either. WP:NOTNEWS does not apply here. Shankargb (talk)

Keep - Protests pre-date 2021 Afghan protests and are notable given the widespread coverage. Protests here are particularly aimed at opposing Pakistan's interference in Afghanistan. Maybe a better title is needed. Mukt (talk) 18:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete None of these protests received widespread coverage apart from Indian news outlets and they were all attended by Afghans and Indian citizens a non notable event and the page it full of Indian sources further reinforcing my feelings this is just some point scoring and an attempt to make an article out of nothing plus it seems the people arguing for it to be kept are from India which indicates its not notable outside of Indian circles it seems very clearly like an WP:POVFORK) of the main protest article. Himachal78 (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:ASPERSIONS. It is clear that either you are misleading yourself or misleading others. No way Al-Jazeera, Radio Free Europe Radio Free Europe, Dawn and many other sources are "Indian news outlet", nor they are limited to "Indian circles". POVFORK argument is also nonsensical because there can be no other page where this content could be added to. To say that protests would have become more notable if they were not attended by non-Afghans and non-Indians is also absurd. Shankargb (talk) 01:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

With respect you're arguments are nonsensical all of this information can be added to this 2021 Afghan protests article wheres CNN/BBC etc reporting this mainstream Western media is not reporting this protests where many of these protests are taking place its a bit odd that Indian media are fixated on it is it not? monumental event for one group with only 3 non Indian sources reporting mostly due to the noise made by Indian media which is notorious for its fake news and propaganda. This is purely a WP:POVFORK and is clearly a big thing for Indian media since the page is dominated by those sources and the keep votes prove it see WP:NOTNEWS. This is not a globally significant event even if the Indian media which is known for its propaganda, fake news and exaggerated reporting against Pakistan is trying to make it out to be the fact you took your time to reply proves to me only one group believes this deserves a separate article I believe this just boils down to petty point scoring. Only sane option is that is should be merged with the 2021 Afghan protest article or deleted. Himachal78 (talk) 04:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It cannot be merged to 2021 Afghan protests and it would be WP:CENSORSHIP to agree with such a nonsensical move, given there are clearly more than "only 3 non Indian sources" providing significant coverage to this subject, the above attempts aimed at deceiving others won't work. Per WP:RS, personal vendetta against reliable Indian sources is nothing but WP:DE laid bare. AnM2002 (talk) 05:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
By some accounts you are known to be uncivil so I will keep it short. It is Nonsensical to even claim its censorship it needs to be merged or deleted just a pov fork and undue pushed by a certain group to satisfy their ego plus if by reliable you mean using video game footage as evidence for an airstrike? Just some friendly advice please stop littering the vote with your nonsensical messages under each Delete vote it just exposes your insecurities the outcome will be decided eventually stop harassing others with regurgitated arguments you use over and over again. Himachal78 (talk) 07:00, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How any of these off-topic and misleading explanations justify the clear disruptive editing including the editor's reckless misrepresentation of sources ? Which "video game footage" are they even talking about ? This article has nothing to do with that. I will consider this yet another misleading remark from them as part of their broader WP:DE. And just for the record the editor's tone points to their Incivility and Disruptive intent which has no place on Wikipedia.AnM2002 (talk) 08:20, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't read the above message by AnM2002 at all but I will remind all those who are frantically replying to any delete vote (including that ip account which strangely resembles a certain user) your attempts to divert and mislead are pointless the decision will be made soon lets just leave it at that I have no issue with the decision of the closing admin whether its kept or deleted or merged I gave my view that's all stop harassing delete voters please. Himachal78 (talk) 09:09, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article is definitely notable and verifiability is not an issue given the diversity of sources. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 07:08, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article is notable, it meets WP:LASTING, WP:GEOSCOPE, WP:DIVERSE criteria —Echo1Charlie (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How does WP:LASTING and by extension, WP:GEOSCOPE apply here? These are isolated protests against the Taliban with a secondary focus on Pakistan. These also will not really lead to anything much, per WP:NOTNEWS. RealKnockout (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTNEWS is irrelevant and you are very wrong with claiming that these 3 months long running protests don't meet WP:LASTING. Read the guidelines before you cite them. Shankargb (talk) 18:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Passes WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 20:28, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: These protest are notable and provided sources are reliable. This article passes WP:GNG and WP:EVENT Nitesh003 (TALK) 13:48, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: A few of the sources, such as this one (it only contains 2 references to anti-Pakistan sentiment), seem to only contain minor coverage of protests. Could someone evaluate the sources and remove sources with very minor references to anti-Pakistan protests? If we considered every protest with even a hint of anti-Pakistan sentiment relevant, this article would be an FA. RealKnockout (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks relevant and significant enough for inclusion. BTW, discussion at AfD should be only about the notability of the subject. Shankargb (talk) 18:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.