Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/33rd Ale Kino! Festival

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After three relistings, consensus for a particular action has not occurred. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:03, 31 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

33rd Ale Kino! Festival

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Briefly, I feel that individual edition of Ale Kino! International Young Audience Film Festival fail to meet Wikipedia:Notability. I originally proposed a merger to the main article, but at Talk:Ale Kino! International Young Audience Film Festival not only the creator, but also User:PanchoS objected, and since the latter explicitly suggested AfD, here we are. I proposed the lastest, 33rd edition for deletion as it is most recent and so sources should be more forthcoming then for, let's say, the 17th Ale Kino! Festival (and judging by Template:Ale Kino! International Young Audience Film Festival, the creator intends to create a page for each different edition). As the individual festival articles are referenced only with WP:PRIMARY, WP:SELFPUBLISHED sources - festival's own website - I looked outside. I see nothing in international media (few mentions in passing and listings like [1] do not help much), but in Polish media there is a bit more coverage. I found two sources for the last edition: one in regional media ([2]) and one in a larger Polish Internet portal ([3]). Unfortunately, I stand by my view that such sources are not sufficient for individual editions. They would be good for expanding the main article (which, I feel, has enough room to accommodate a full merge of the awards table), but I don't see enough coverage to support keeping individual articles. All that the news sources stay can be summarized in a short pararaph: festival takes place in PLACE, DATE, FOO-number of films will be shown, including highlight A, B and C. Several winners have been announced beforehand. That's it as far as the news - do note that this coverage is before the event, in a semi-PR form of "come to the festival". There is no coverage of the festival itself, no discussion of awards aftermath, etc. The coverage is not very in-depth, and not very independent, as it seems to rely on quotes and PR-releases of the festival organizers. I doubt any of the past editions can show more coverage then that. I will once again say that I think the festival itself is likely notable (even through it is too minor to be listed in Template:Film festivals), but individual editions of it are most certainly not, and fail Wikipedia:Notability (events), WP:NORG and WP:GNG, whichever we chose. PS. If the consensus here will be to merge, I hope that the creator will also merge other created pages on individual editions of this, rather then waiting for them to be nominated here. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:42, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please do not write "Briefly" and then follow it with a 414 word AFD rationale. Edison (talk) 18:02, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Ale Kino! International Young Audience Film Festival. I don't think the individual years are notable on their own. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 06:46, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Merging all the Festival results into one article would make it overlong. The festival is international, old, under the auspices of International Centre of Films for Children and Young People and many important films take part in it, including Oscar, Golden Globes etc. nominees and winners. Many events like that have their separate articles, including Polish ones. Check Category:Polish Film Awards ceremonies. It's national, the articles are even shorter. And nobody claims it's not notable enough. There are others, too: Category:Sidabrinė gervė, Category:Guldbagge Awards ceremonies, Category:Yeşilçam Award, to name only a few. Yow will find more here: Category:Film awards by continent. I think there's enough space in Wikipedia to describe not only the wildly known things, events etc. but also those less known. They even should be described more detailful, since you may find Oscar, Emmy etc. results in many places, while not speaking Polish and looking for the Ale Kino! results you will only have Wikipedia. (Kyleall (talk) 17:47, 30 June 2016 (UTC))[reply]

"And nobody claims it's not notable enough" - actually, that's why it's at AfD in the first place. All the sources in the article are currently from the festival's website. There needs to be reliable third-party sources outside of its own site, eg news coverage, etc. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:26, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are others. Not many international, I agree, but shouldn't Wikipedia be an encyclopedia, describing facts, things, events etc. to people ? It's easy to find Emmy, BAFTA, Cannes results - no need to repeat it. I'm not saying you can't do it, but you don't need it because interested in the subject will find them easly. That's why the presence of festivals less known, like Ale Kino! and others mentioned by me above (and more) is even more important.

But if you need other links, here they are: https://filmfreeway.com/festival/AleKinoFest , http://www.ecfaweb.org/ecfnet/festivals.php?l=Poland&f=36 , http://www.creative-europe-media.eu/festivals/festivals/item/545-international-young-audience-film-festival-ale-kino , http://culture.pl/en/event/the-28th-international-young-audience-film-festival-ale-kino-awards , http://www.csdpoznan.pl/en/ale-kino-film-festival , http://www.mfdb.eu/en/films-poznan_ale_kino_international_childrens_film_festival_y0_f85459 , http://www.poznan.pl/mim/turystyka/en/f,p,12685,12686,12693.html , http://www.wbimages.be/index.php?id=8975&L=1&tx_cfwbavmsearch_pi1%5Buid%5D=556 , http://en.pisf.pl/film-in-poland/festivals , https://www.facebook.com/festiwal.AleKino/ , http://www.imdb.com/event/ev0000745/overview , https://www.youtube.com/user/festiwalalekino (Kyleall (talk) 12:52, 3 July 2016 (UTC))[reply]

First, we are discussing the 33rd Festival, so you should present sources for that one, not the 28th or others. Some of the refs you present are simply not reliable, like Facebook or Youtube. The best one is culture.pl, but again, that's about the wrong festival. And I think it is important to note that culture.pl does not cover the festival regularly. I see they have entry for the 28th festival awards, but not for the others - which again suggests that the festival does not regularly achieve notability. If we spend a lot of time collecting sources, maybe, maybe you could find a few editions that would squeak through, but frankly, I very much doubt that most would. Again, I do not see why we cannot merge the 1-2 sentence of history for each festival (date, location, attendees, occasional near trivia incident) plus the table of awards into the main festival page. If it would really become unvieldy, I think we can have a separate list of awards awarded at that festival page. No information needs to be lost, the only thing we will achieve is merging a bunch of individual mostly-award-table pages into one or two articles. This is the best solution for everyone; I really do not understand why you think having individual tiny pages for each festival would be beneficial to the readers (and anyway, the point is, they are simply not notable, i.e. not encyclopedic by themselves). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:16, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I realise neither Facebook nor YouTube are reliable sources. Having given those two I only wanted to highlight its being real and serious event, since nowadays most of them have their profiles on social media. I'm against merging only because it's going to make the article impossibly long and unclear. Now, there are only three or four editions made, but I would like to create more of them. Do you really think it's going to work well ? Other festivals, including many not widly known, have their separate articles, why can't this particular one do ? The second idea, creating separate article about the awards, is better but I still have my doubts about its length. And why do you think it doesn't "deserve" separate pages ? Have you seen ex. Category:Guldbagge Awards ceremonies ? It's even shorter and still have ones. (Kyleall (talk) 17:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC))[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is only a reason to consider discussing the appropriateness and deletion of those other pages. The Guldbagge pages don't impress me with their notability, through them being Swedish, perhaps there are sources I don't see. For the AKF, I am pretty sure I don't see much in Polish sources (and since I monitor pl pages on en wiki, well, I am often "picking" on Polish subjects). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:27, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:12, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:20, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:25, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Rather than diminishing the number of film festivals which have coverage in the form of year-by-year Wikipedia articles, we should be encouraging contributors to create more such entries. With hundreds of film festivals spotlighted by individual Wikipedia write-ups, only 13 pages (including this 33rd Ale Kino! Festival) can be found within Category:2015 film festivals. While we await annual coverage for the past editions of Kraków Film Festival, Gdynia Film Festival, Warsaw International Film Festival and other Polish film festivals, such as International Festival of Independent Cinema PKO Off Camera or Etiuda&Anima International Film Festival (as well as other nations' festivals), retention should be granted to this well-assembled entry for 2015 which lists 12 awarded film titles, 6 of which link to their own Wikipedia entries. Some film festivals are more-prominently covered in world media outlets (and within Wikipedia) than other festivals, but it should be noted that, in 2015, this 33rd Ale Kino! Festival attracted submissions from at least 13 listed nations. A redirect or deletion would deprive Wikipedia users from accessing almost all such specific data. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 20:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Please check WP:ITSUSEFUL, and why it is NOT a valid argument in deletions. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:54, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: final relist — Music1201 ^talk 01:53, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Music1201 ^talk 01:53, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.