Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Achdus

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. A redirect discussion, if needed, can continue editorially. Star Mississippi 02:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Achdus

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An obscure and not notable political party that participated in two elections gaining no seats. Previous version incorrectly stated that it gained three seats in the parliament (which would imply notability), but according to well regarded biographical dictionary of Seimas members, it was another Jewish party that gained three seats. Source: Ragauskas, Aivas; Tamošaitis, Mindaugas, eds. (2007). Lietuvos Respublikos Seimų I (1922–1923), II (1923–1926), III (1926–1927), IV (1936–1940) narių biografinis žodynas. Didysis Lietuvos parlamentarų biografinis žodynas (in Lithuanian). Vol. 3. Vilniaus pedagoginis universitetas. ISBN 978-9955-20-345-2. Renata•3 03:52, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Organizations, Politics, and Lithuania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 05:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, it seems that the party was notable, it was part of the parliament. 1922 Lithuanian parliamentary election article clearly says that the party had three MPs. Also later members of this party were on the list of the Minorities Electoral Bloc, so that's why it seems that Achdus didn't have any MPs in 1923 elections, but they had for example Isaak Holcberg. Marcelus (talk) 23:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus: Achdus did not have 3 seats in the Seimas. That is an error (since 2012!). I fixed one table but not the other. The 3 seats were actually another Jewish party (Zionist group For the Nation and Autonomy). Renata•3 23:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Achdus still had their deputies, but as a part of largel minorities bloc Marcelus (talk) 08:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from the nomination, it's not clear which parties are being confused. My understanding is that what is being referred to as Achdus in Lithuania, is the Jewish Peoples Party, which was more commonly known by its Yiddish name, Folkspartei and for which we have an article already which covers both Poland and Lithuania. In the 1920 Lithuanian elections, the Jewish parties formed joint electoral tickets, which produced 6 representatives, two of whom were from Folkspartei/JPP/Achdus. In 1923, there was at least one Folskpartei member elected - Ozer Finkelstein. So I would tend towards keep with a focus on the post-WW1 period for this article, although a rename to Jewish People's Party (Lithuania) might be appropriate. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 00:20, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Goldsztajn: That's the thing that I can't find any sources to explain what this "Achdus" was or where it came from. It might be misspelled and should read "Achdut". It maybe be related to Agudat Yisrael or World Agudath Israel. The article was created solely based on an erroneous claim that it won 3 seats in 1922 elections. Renata•3 00:44, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Hi @Renata3 - Achdut (אַחְדוּת) is a Hebrew word, it means unity. Agudat Yisrael/World Agudath Israel are religious political movements, the JPP/Folkspartei was secular. What I can see from is that in the 1920 election there is a braod coalition list including Zionists, religious and non/anti-Zionists - which includes the Folkspartei/JPP who take two seats. In 1922 the JPP contests the election separately and fails to win any seats, whereas the Zionist Group takes 3. This article in Lithuanian covers national minorities in the Lithuanian elections for the period 1920-1926, there's three mentions of Achdus. We need cleanup and discussion on the exact name, but I'm not convinced delete is the appropriate option here. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 02:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Goldsztajn: I saw the article, but it's of zero help - it just states how many votes were received (based on Lithuanian statistical yearbook) in 1922 and 1923. Renata•3 02:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Hi - @Renata3 - I wouldn't say *zero* help, it clearly shows that Achdus relates to the JPP. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 02:40, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Hmmm ... ok, so looking at this further - I wonder is this JPP-Achdus in 1922 a split from the Folkspartei? @Renata3 Do you have access to candidate lists for the 1922 election? Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 03:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      @Goldsztajn: according to this (page 3) there were 4 candidates in Kaunas: Nachmanas Rachmilevičius, Ber Šapiro (rabbi), Izakas Golcbergas [lt], Fišelis Beras (merchant). Renata•3 03:36, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Hi @Renata3 - thanks that very helpful! ok, this is beginning to make sense now, I think! The problem is the inconsistencies regarding the name; I mistakenly accepted at face value the attribution in the article to the JPP. Now that you've sent the newspaper with the candidates it makes more sense and I can see the title as "Jewish Peoples Election Group - Unity". I'm guessing Achdus is a Lithuanian rendering of the Hebrew word (?), which would make sense given the list of candidates you've just provided, who were definitely not from the secular side of politics. I'd now probably lean towards a redirect to Natan Rachmilewitz/Nachmanas Rachmilevičius. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 04:27, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Actually, Issac Golzberg/Izakas Golcbergas might be the better redirect as it seems he's the only person actually to sit in the Seimas under the banner of Achdus. His entry in the Seimas website mentions membership of Achdus. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 04:38, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:10, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: If there is a consensus on a Redirect, we need to see some agreement on the target article. It would help if participants returned to finish this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:37, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Please see previous reisting comment.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:44, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.