Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anarchism (disambiguation)
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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was delete. Redwolf24 23:17, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- For other related VFD discussions, see:
The guideline says "Disambiguation pages serve a single purpose: To let the reader choose between different pages that might reside under the same title." [1] It does not serve that purpose. This article is a POV fork being used to exclude certain anarchist philosophies (in particular, anarcho-capitalism) from the Anarchism article.
- Nominator forgot to add to the VfD logs, adding to today's log --cesarb 01:21, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete RJII 18:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC) (originator of vote)[reply]
- Keep It does serve that purpose, that is why Nat Krause (who is sympathetic to anarcho-capitalism) originally created it and that is the form it has currently. RJ simply wants it removed because it goes against his plans to have the anarchism article overemphasize anarcho-capitalism. Kev 19:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: this is coming from a guy who deletes all mention of anarcho-capitalism from Anarchism [2]. RJII has never wanted anarcho-capitalism "overemphasized" but described briefly in Anarchism along with the other philosophies that oppose the existence of a state. Kevehs keeps putting up a header on the Anarchism article saying that the article is going to be POV (that is, it's only going to include anti-capitalist anarchist philosophies. Putting up such a header doesn't release an article from the NPOV rule.) RJII 19:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is the header he's putting up: ":This article illustrates anarchism as it refers to philosophies and social movements that oppose hierarchy in all forms, such as the state and capitalism. There are other philosophies and movements that call themselves anarchist but differ from the definition given here. For other uses such as these, see anarchism (disambiguation). This is clearly not a legitimate disambiguation but an anti-capitalist POV attempt to monopolize the word "Anarchism." An NPOV article would not make such judgement calls on what anti-state philosophy is or is not anarchism. RJII 19:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- The article does not make any judgement call on what is or is not anarchism. The disambiguation header explains that this is one usage of the term, and that other political philosophies use the term different, and that those other uses can be found on the disambiguation page. As for removing the AC section, there isn't any point for it once the article has been disambigated, because AC philosophy is no longer being described in it. I'm happy to put a reduced version of that section back, as Nat Krause agreed, if that was the limit of AC referance on the page. And I don't know what you want RJ, but you are in fact overemphasizing capitalism in the general article by including AC counterpoints and perspective throughout. Kev 19:29, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a disambiguation article. It does not serve the purpose of letting "the reader choose between different pages that might reside under the same title." The title of the article says it's disambiguation, but it's not, at least not in accordance with guidelines. Also, therefore, there should be no link to it. I also helped create the so-called disambiguation page and supported it, but have come to the realization that its improper. The logic behind the guidline becomes clear when one sees what it's being used for, by anti-capitalist POV individuals such as Kevehs. The guideline is there for a reason and now we can cleary see what that reason is. The article is clearly inconsistent with Wikipedia guidlines and should be deleted. RJII 19:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Kinda funny how you never noticed that when Hogeye was shoving his POV into it, ah well. Anyway, but this article does "let the reader choose between different pages that might reside under the same title." It clearly directs the reader to both the anarchism page (under the anti-capitalist meaning which is far more predominate), and the anarcho-capitalism page (under the AC meaning). So, if you don't think this is directing the reader as described above, what exactly would? Kev 19:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't understand that guideline or are being purposely obtuse. It's saying that if there are other things that are called "Anarchism" then there can be a disambiguation page to direct people to those other meanings. For example, such a page would let the reader choose between "mutualism" the economic theory, or "mutualism" the biological phenomenon. "Anarcho-capitalism" is not another meaning of "anarchism." It's a TYPE of anarchism. Anarcha-feminism is not another meaning of "anarchism." It's a type of anarchism. Anarcho-primitivism is not another meaning of anarchism. It's a TYPE of anarchism. RJII 19:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm already aware of that, and that is precisely the point of the page. It is there to refer not to anarcho-capitalism as another meaning of anarchism, but to the meaning of anarchism that anarcho-capitalists use. It is clear that they use a different meaning, because they feel anarchism entails things that none of the other anarchists do. Further, the standard anarchism definition has not been allowed to be used in the anarchism article because of objections solely coming from anarcho-capitalists, which again arise from the fact that they use the word anarchism to mean something else. And that is exactly what the disambiguation page makes clear right now, it shows both meanings and links to the articles that use them. Now perhaps you are suggesting that there should be a specific anarchism (capitalist) article to deal with their different understanding of anarchism. That is fine, then it should link to the disambiguation page and then provide links to the AC article from there. But either way is fine with me. Kev 21:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't understand that guideline or are being purposely obtuse. It's saying that if there are other things that are called "Anarchism" then there can be a disambiguation page to direct people to those other meanings. For example, such a page would let the reader choose between "mutualism" the economic theory, or "mutualism" the biological phenomenon. "Anarcho-capitalism" is not another meaning of "anarchism." It's a TYPE of anarchism. Anarcha-feminism is not another meaning of "anarchism." It's a type of anarchism. Anarcho-primitivism is not another meaning of anarchism. It's a TYPE of anarchism. RJII 19:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Kinda funny how you never noticed that when Hogeye was shoving his POV into it, ah well. Anyway, but this article does "let the reader choose between different pages that might reside under the same title." It clearly directs the reader to both the anarchism page (under the anti-capitalist meaning which is far more predominate), and the anarcho-capitalism page (under the AC meaning). So, if you don't think this is directing the reader as described above, what exactly would? Kev 19:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a disambiguation article. It does not serve the purpose of letting "the reader choose between different pages that might reside under the same title." The title of the article says it's disambiguation, but it's not, at least not in accordance with guidelines. Also, therefore, there should be no link to it. I also helped create the so-called disambiguation page and supported it, but have come to the realization that its improper. The logic behind the guidline becomes clear when one sees what it's being used for, by anti-capitalist POV individuals such as Kevehs. The guideline is there for a reason and now we can cleary see what that reason is. The article is clearly inconsistent with Wikipedia guidlines and should be deleted. RJII 19:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- The article does not make any judgement call on what is or is not anarchism. The disambiguation header explains that this is one usage of the term, and that other political philosophies use the term different, and that those other uses can be found on the disambiguation page. As for removing the AC section, there isn't any point for it once the article has been disambigated, because AC philosophy is no longer being described in it. I'm happy to put a reduced version of that section back, as Nat Krause agreed, if that was the limit of AC referance on the page. And I don't know what you want RJ, but you are in fact overemphasizing capitalism in the general article by including AC counterpoints and perspective throughout. Kev 19:29, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is the header he's putting up: ":This article illustrates anarchism as it refers to philosophies and social movements that oppose hierarchy in all forms, such as the state and capitalism. There are other philosophies and movements that call themselves anarchist but differ from the definition given here. For other uses such as these, see anarchism (disambiguation). This is clearly not a legitimate disambiguation but an anti-capitalist POV attempt to monopolize the word "Anarchism." An NPOV article would not make such judgement calls on what anti-state philosophy is or is not anarchism. RJII 19:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Wasn't this (more or less) what Hogeye was fighting for earlier? I see RJ's points in that this isn't really a classic "disambiguation" case where there are two completely different meanings or contexts of a word; it would be nice if everybody could agree on one "broad tent" that could fairly encompass all the varieties of anarchism, capitalist and socialist alike. But it doesn't look like that is ever happening, and I, for one, have no desire for eternal edit wars. A disambig page, and sub-pages giving the definitions of anarchism as seen by the disparate movements that use the word, is the best that can be hoped for. Let's all at least agree on this, and then work to "tweak" all the pages into a state that fairly presents their subject matter. *Dan* 00:51, July 16, 2005 (UTC)On second thought, Delete... the latest edits to Anarchism have removed the need for this, so we should probably stick with that instead. *Dan* 01:24, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Delete article or Delete all but links does not serve function. POV mess. Amicuspublilius 22:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Either: delete disambig page and merge the anarchism articles, or move current anarchism article to "Anarchism (anti-capitalist)" or some such. --Trovatore 05:55, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]- Above vote was made before I found the section on anarcho-capitalism in the main anarchism article. That strikes me as reasonably satisfactory. The problematic thing, then, is that the link to the main anarchism article on the dab page reads "Anarchism (anti-capitalist)", when in fact it points to an article that is not entirely about anti-capitalist anarchism. That, plus the fact that the {{Anarchism}} template doesn't mention anarcho-capitalism. But if the main article points to the anarcho-capitalism article, we don't need the dab page. So: delete the dab page, and add anarcho-capitalism to the {{Anarchism}} template. --Trovatore 06:13, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep The anarchism article and template change many times a day. The usefulness of a disambiguation page depends on the temporary state of the main article. In some configurations, the disambiguation page is the main article (Hogeye's suggestion.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.15.54.56 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 28 July 2005
- You could always make some other kind of page but not fraudulently present it as a disambiguation page, like this one does. RJII 06:13, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete -- there is a lot more in the supposed disambiguation page than disambiguation; there is no ambiguity between these two, Anarchism means anarchism per the manifesto, or more generally as supporting abolishment of all forms of government; there is a reason the word Anarcho-capitalist is used, the very use of that word implies a difference from Anarchism, and that it is not what users will be looking for when they want Anarchism: let Anarchism briefly explain the distinction and link to Anarcho-capitalism --Mysidia 02:48, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, agree with Mysidia. This page only serves to create ambiguity. --bainer (talk) 05:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. After reading the current version of Anarchism, this disambiguation page seems entirely unnecessary. There's a section that describes anarcho-capitalism briefly and links to it in the schools of thought section. I don't see what purpose this page serves other than to game the NPOV rules to support someone's agenda. It'd be a bit like saying that you can't give the skeptical response to paranormal phenomenon or CAM in their articles, but instead must have a disambiguation page for each of them. --FreelanceWizard 06:02, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong delete WP:NOT soapbox, WP:NOR. Dunc|☺ 16:16, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Edit to comply with disambiguation standards We don't delete disambig pages, do we? This page needs to be edited severely to include links to all articles that might be expected to appear under the title Anarchism, but not deleted. I agree with the spirit of the delete votes, but there absolutely must be a page with this title, just not this page in its present form. Pedant 20:05, 2005 July 28 (UTC)
- Delete. If it's edited to be a proper disambiguation page, it will consist of a single link, pointing to Anarchism. --Carnildo 20:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, page is unnecessary considering current state of Anarchism article. Xaa 23:51, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect, which incidentally does not require VfD. All in all, this sounds a case for WP:RfC or possibly Arbcom... not for VfD. -- Visviva 03:14, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, page has nontrivial history. Ben Standeven 07:03, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, any relevant content can be moved to anti-statism Saswann 16:20, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - I was expecting a disambiguation and found... not sure what but it doesn't belong. - Tεxτurε 17:03, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.