Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bachana Arabuli

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 09:32, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bachana Arabuli

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This article was previously nominated for deletion here, and closed no consensus without prejudice to speedy renomination due to bundling issues. The underlying notability concerns remain however. Arabuli has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:15, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete has not played in a fully pro league.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 19:56, 14 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails NFOOTY as has not played senior international football nor played in a fully professional league. No indication that subject has garnered significant reliable coverage for any other achievements to satisfy GNG. Fenix down (talk) 12:18, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep/Comment - a user in the previous discussion said that this source shows that the Umaglesi Liga is professional. I did very slight research and found mixed results. If the Umaglesi Liga is found to be professional than the article should be kept, if not than article should be deleted. Inter&anthro (talk) 14:01, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are confused between the notion of a professional league, one in which there is a degree of remuneration, where some teams may pay their players sufficient that they do not need other employment, and a fully professional league, where the level of financing in the competition as a whole is such that essentially all first team players are full-time. I don't think there is any doubt that there are elements of full professionalism within georgian football. The doubt remains whether the league is fully professional given the level of attendances amongst other statistics and comments in sources. Fenix down (talk) 14:29, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The only confusion here is that of the football wikiproject groupthinkers who believe that such a thing as a "fully professional league" actually exists anywhere in the world, and, even if it did exist, whether it bears any relationship to actual notability. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry that you seem to confuse consensus with group think,. You probably ought to review WP:FPL then as there are plenty of sources there which confirm the fully professional nature of a large number of leagues. As always, GNG trumps any subject-specific guidelines, so perhaps rather than popping into AfDs to post bitter comments, you might find your time more productively spent trying to find sources to satisfy GNG, it would certainly be morehelpful to the wider project. Fenix down (talk) 09:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are problems with doing that. Firstly I don't read Georgian - it has a beautifully looking alphabet but I'm afraid I can't make any sense of the language, so can't make a stab of getting anything out of these potential sources. The other problem is that deletion discussions for any footballer outside the major European footballing nations always start with the same few editors claiming that they don't meet WP:GNG, but without saying what evidence thay base that statement on. Maybe Sir Sputnik and GiantSnowman could tell us what steps they made to determine that this player does not meet WP:GNG, which is the usual way that deletion discussions on other topics are conducted. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:09, 21 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The issue appears to primarily be whether the league is fully professional or not. If someone can read Georgian and is interested in this AfD, I recommend reading the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Fully_professional_leagues#Georgian_Umaglesi_Liga, visiting the site listed by FkpCascais, and updating the list of known fully professional leagues to reflect the appropriate status of the Umaglesi Liga. To avoid further controversy, please consider posting (at the above-linked discussion) an English translation of the applicable paragraph(s) from the Georgian football regulations.--Rpclod (talk) 12:12, 21 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:58, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:58, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Therein lies the problem. The anglocentric football notability criteria make the issue whether the league is fully professional or not, rather than recognise that this player has played ten matches for the most successful football team in Georgia, and so is, from any sensible standpoint, more notable than someone who has played ten matches for the 92nd most successful team in England. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:16, 25 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:39, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - While Umaglesi Liga is the top league in the Republic of Georgia, it is not on the list of fully-professional leagues, and thus cannot be used to meet the current requirements of WP:NFOOTY. Arabuli has not played for the Georgia national football team and has not appeared to garner enough significant independent coverage to meet WP:GNG — Jkudlick • t • c • s 20:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The question is whether the current requirements of WP:NFOOTY are fit for purpose. Does anyone really believe that someone who has played ten matches for York City, a perfectly respectable team but not a particularly successful one, should be presumed notable but not someone who has played 10 matches for Dinamo Tbilisi, by far Georgia's most successful team and one of the top teams in the former Soviet Union? Can we please base the discussion on real life rather than wikilawyering? 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.