Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Selman
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Peter Karlsen (talk) 02:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Bill Selman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics
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Fails WP:NHOCKEY for coaches. Just as playing for a NCAA ice hockey team isn't notable, neither is being a coach of one. DJSasso (talk) 16:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. —DJSasso (talk) 16:59, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Speedy Keep: Selman is notable as the Head Coach of the 1979-80 Dayton Gems in the International Hockey League (IHL).[1] Dolovis (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- He still fails WP:NHOCKEY. It requires 100 games coached in a minor league. It was specifically written that way so that one season would not be enough. Had he coached more than one season there might be something to it. -DJSasso (talk) 19:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The full year of being a Head Coach of professional hockey, combined with the several years of being Head Coach of University and College hockey teams, is enough to satisfy the presumption of notability. It may be true that the current standard for inclusion is that "just as playing for a NCAA ice hockey team isn't notable", but this person was more than "just playing", he was a Head Coach of NCAA hockey teams for several years. There are many players on a team, but only one Head Coach. This is an article that should be expanded, not deleted. Dolovis (talk) 19:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- And if someone can find some reliable sources about him to pass WP:GNG then I will agree. Without any sources that significantly cover him then he isn't considered notable. Believe me I like to keep hockey articles when I can, but I couldn't find any articles that talked about him. Albeit I only did a websearch since I am not in any of the locations he coached in. But as long as there are no sources (other than a stats page), he doesn't pass the requirements for an article. Not only does he have to pass the presumption of notability but he has to also pass the verifiablity of his notability. -DJSasso (talk) 19:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I find it hard to believe that you made any attempt to establish his notability before nominating this article. Sources are plentiful and easy to find.[2] Selman was also the Coach of the American Team at the 1982 World Ice Hockey Championships held in Finland.[3]. That ices his claim of notability, and a speedy keep is warranted. Dolovis (talk) 20:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh I had no problem finding sources that mention him. But WP:N requires the articles to be significantly about the individual. Not just a passing mention in an article about something else. If he was a national coach then yes he meets WP:N. But he is still failing WP:V. -DJSasso (talk) 21:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I find it hard to believe that you made any attempt to establish his notability before nominating this article. Sources are plentiful and easy to find.[2] Selman was also the Coach of the American Team at the 1982 World Ice Hockey Championships held in Finland.[3]. That ices his claim of notability, and a speedy keep is warranted. Dolovis (talk) 20:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- And if someone can find some reliable sources about him to pass WP:GNG then I will agree. Without any sources that significantly cover him then he isn't considered notable. Believe me I like to keep hockey articles when I can, but I couldn't find any articles that talked about him. Albeit I only did a websearch since I am not in any of the locations he coached in. But as long as there are no sources (other than a stats page), he doesn't pass the requirements for an article. Not only does he have to pass the presumption of notability but he has to also pass the verifiablity of his notability. -DJSasso (talk) 19:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep 14 years in the NCAA, 1 in IHL, and a national team is definitely enough. Grsz11 21:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is a book Selman contributed to about coaching hockey. Source as North Dakota coach, St. Louis, mentioned in the "Blue Book of College Athletics", in "Sport in the USSR", "WCHA Coaches". Grsz11 21:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah if he was a national coach I have no problem with considering him probably notable, but we are still missing references significantly about him. Remember passing mentions which almost all of these are, are not good enough to satisfy WP:N. -DJSasso (talk) 21:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I see enough coverage to pass WP:GNG CTJF83 chat 21:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:22, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per reasons by Dolovis and Grsz above. Bhockey10 (talk) 04:48, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep because it meets the guidelines that nominator suggested, specifically #6: "Played (coached) on a senior national team (such as at the Olympic Games or World Championship)" which Selman did at the 1982 World Championship. Bds69 (talk) 18:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.