Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Burn Hall School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:44, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Burn Hall School

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~~Unreferenced with a chance of CoI, clearly fails wikipedia's notability~~ Kakima minimoto (talk) 07:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Speedy Delete. WP:COPYVIO. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 08:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment ~~Although~~ Copyvio text has been removed, ~~it is still visible in page history, and none of the three refs are~~ but only one ref is now functional (with passing refs), leaving the text effectively unsourced. Citations, please?? Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 09:09, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep: Keep: The school has a long history and is notable in the Indian subcontinent as well as abroad; has strong connections with Saint Joseph's Missionary Society of Mill Hill and Army Burn Hall College. Remove content that comes under WP:COPYVIO. Idell (talk) 08:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment citation please if it is notableKakima minimoto (talk) 09:16, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Per WP:GDBN:
  First do the necessary homework and look for sources yourself, and invite discussion on the talk page by using the {{notability}} template, if you are disputing the notability of an article's subject.
  Nevertheless, take a look at the sources cited on ABHC for that purpose. Idell (talk) 11:11, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There's need for improvement as to sources, rest as per a user above this institute is quite notable and has a long history as to Kashmir and Pakistan. USaamo ^(t@lk) 13:02, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Saint Joseph's Missionary Society of Mill Hill or Army Burn Hall College. I don't really care which, but this clearly isn't notable enough on it's own since the only claim to notability is that people say it is. That said, it would be fine to merge it into either article that I suggested. Although I'll leave it up to other people to decide which one. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to either Saint Joseph's Missionary Society of Mill Hill or to Army Burn Hall College per Adamant1. I rescued one of the 3 references currently in the article, a journal piece, but it made only 2 passing mentions of Burn Hall School. There are also multiple book and Google scholar references — again, they make only passing mentions. Online reviews suggest it may be a fine institution, but without significant coverage in reliable, independent, secondary sources it fails WP:GNG. I'd like to be persuaded otherwise with some solid references; ~~however, merging appears to me to be the best option at this point.~~ Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Generally, if a school is a high school (as this one appears to be), then verifiability is enough to keep an article on the school (see WP:SCHOOLS. --RegentsPark (comment) 20:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: RegentsPark, unfortunately, WP:SCHOOLS is now a DAB page, not the standard in use. WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is, which says, At one time, secondary schools were assumed notable unless sources could not be found to prove existence, but following a February 2017 RFC, secondary schools are not presumed to be notable simply because they exist, and are still subject to WP:N and WP:ORG. Schools now must meet either WP:N or WP:ORG. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, ok. I guess I'm behind the times. Then scratch my not vote since I can't actually look for sources (and am unclear as to what makes a school notable anyway). --RegentsPark (comment) 22:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I disagree with the merge proposal, particularly the 'merge to Army Burn Hall College' one. At the time of creation, both of them had different names. Burn Hall School has the same founders as ABHC and it was later renamed after ABHC, that’s all they have in common anymore. They are located in two different countries, with quite the polar opposite administrations. Note that this school is located in a territory disputed between two (or just maybe three) countries. That explains the lack of coverage well enough. Merging would be particularly disruptive for ABHC and further confuse the readers. See Special:Diff/968950676 where administrator Necrothesp deprod-ed my proposed deletion of a secondary school that failed GNG. Idell (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thanks, Idell for the background perspective. I cannot recall another AfD discussion where I was more in a quandary, but here I have again struck part of my previous posts. I have finally found more sources (below), some with more than passing mention, but I am not familiar with any of these publications. I would appreciate others' evaluations of their reliability and independence of the school. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 08:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Grand'mere Eugene, I have struck my vote and chaanged to keep Minimoto (talk) 07:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Burn Hall School, Srinagar". EducationWorld. 2013-03-22. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"Children of Conflict: How is Uncertainty Shaping Children's Behaviour in Kashmir". Kashmir Observer. 2018-06-20. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"Debates, discussions augment academic atmosphere : Altaf Bukhari | KNO". Kashmir News Observer. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"Burn Hall School celebrates diamond jubilee". Greater Kashmir. 2016-05-06. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"DDC inaugurates Burn Hall Bal Mela". Greater Kashmir. 2015-03-14. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"BPL Student's Admission In Missionary Schools". Greater Kashmir. 2016-12-21. Retrieved 2020-07-26.
"Old schooling brands no more gold in academics?". Greater Kashmir. 2015-03-14. Retrieved 2020-07-26.

Keep. I checked the sources above at WP:RSP and also the archives of WP:RSN, and found no adverse records. Using these sources, I've substantially revised the content of the article, and now believe (finally!) that it meets WP:GNG, and should be kept in the encyclopedia. Thanks to all for your patience while I dithered my way through this process. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 17:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since you cited the notability guidelines, you don't think an article about them celebrating a jubilee and a few of the topics the sources talk about would be what WP:NORG considers trivial coverage? --Adamant1 (talk) 01:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Adamant1: The guideline on sources refers to "multiple sources", but not every source is required to provide "significant coverage". I agree that the jubilee article is not significant coverage, but it does support the assertion of the school's longevity, its existence for 60 years. I did describe the list above as "some with more than passing mention", so following the advice of Roy Smith's essay, I offer that of the list above, #1, #5, and #7 provide substantial coverage of the school, though #2, which only mentions Burn Hall School, gets my vote for the most thoughtful piece. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 08:20, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. I was just asking. You make a fair point though. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:HEY, well done to Grand'mere Eugene finding and using good sources. — Toughpigs (talk) 02:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I am very happy that my mere effort of just taking the bad shape article on Afd have improved it a lot, thanks to grand mere I am ready to keep the article, once again thanksMinimoto (talk) 07:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.