Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Capital Collision (2023)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. There is consensus that the sources are reliable and valid. Voters also pointed out that the nominator didn’t give time for the article to be improved after creation before starting the RFD. (non-admin closure) - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 13:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Capital Collision (2023)

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Capital Collision (2023) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Gails GNG and EVENTCRIT. Subject does not have IS RS showing notability. Event received normal ROUTINE coverage, but fails WP:COVERAGE criteria.  // Timothy :: talk  20:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Wrestling, and Washington, D.C.. Shellwood (talk) 21:04, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

  • Keep: They are the same sources used for the 2022 event, even from NJPW official site.

  LIJ4EVA (talk) 22:35, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

  See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS  // Timothy :: talk  12:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

• Keep - Nominator jumped the gun, as he nominated the article hours after it was created not allowing editors to improve the article. Anyways I added more reliable sources which should allow the article to pass WP:GNG. TheDeviantPro (talk) 01:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

  Can you tell us which of the sources are independent reliable with SIGCOV?  // Timothy :: talk  12:01, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

  All the sources I added are reliable independent sources as per WP:PW/RS that provided significate coverage relating to the event. TheDeviantPro (talk) 14:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

• Keep As stated above, reliable sources have now been added, as with last years event, this one passes WP:GNG. Thief-River-Faller (talk) 11:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

  Can you tell us which of the sources are independent reliable with SIGCOV?  // Timothy :: talk  12:01, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

• Source eval:

Primary, promo	NEW JAPAN PRO-WRESTLING". NJPW. Retrieved 2023-04-16.
Primary, promo	NEW JAPAN PRO-WRESTLING". NJPW. Retrieved 2023-04-16.
Primary, promo	3. ^ "NJPW announces Collision events for Washington, D.C. and Philadelphia". f4wonline. Retrieved April 16, 2023.
How Stuff works article is not RS. Plus it is from 2017, so it could not have any info about this 2023 event.	4. ^ Grabianowski, Ed. "How Pro Wrestling Works". HowStuffWorks, Inc. Discovery Communications. Retrieved October 9, 2017.
Routine news about a suspension, not SIGCOV about the EVENT	5. ^ "NJPW Suspends Juice Robinson For His Actions At NJPW Capital Collision". Fightful. 2023-04-16. Retrieved 2023-04-17.
Routine news about a player, not SIGCOV about the EVENT	6. ^ "Lance Archer Advances In IWGP US Title Top Contender Tournament At NJPW Collision In Philadelphia". Fightful. 2023-04-16. Retrieved 2023-04-17.
Routine news about a player injury, not SIGCOV about the EVENT	7. ^ "Hiroshi Tanahashi injured, change made to NJPW Collision card". f4wonline. Retrieved April 16, 2023.
Game results	8. ^ "4/15 NJPW Capital Collision results: McGuire's in-person report on Motor City Machine Guns vs. Aussie Open vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Kazuchika Okada in a three-way for the NJPW Strong Openweight Tag Team Titles, Kenta vs. Eddie Edwards for the NJPW Strong Openweight Championship, Hiromu Takahashi and Tetsuya Naito vs. Sanada and Yoshinobu Kanemaru". Pro-Wrestling Dor Net. 2023-04-15. Retrieved 2023-04-17.

The above refs are just spam links, All are clearly promo, routine news. Nothing that shows notability with IS RS containing SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth.  // Timothy :: talk  12:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

They are not spam links, so I don't why you think that. Second source is a independent source not a primary. Third source is a source that is used in all pro wrestling events articles on Wikipedia. Fourth and sixth are about incidents/injury that happened at the event. Fifth source is a follow up to the fourth source and final source is a source for the results. Overall all these sources with expection of the third source provides significate coverage to the event and are reliable. So I don't why you claiming that they don't. You might as well go and nominate hundreds/thousands articles on Wikipedia about pro-wrestling events since they are essentially are sourced the same way and this article is no different. TheDeviantPro (talk) 14:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Then we can also delete them. An article from 2017 can't talk about issues in 2023. Oaktree b (talk) 22:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Clear fail of WP:GNG (secondary sources). I agree with Timothy's analysis. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:12, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

  The page is being improved why delete it. Timothy jumped the gun before more info could be added and most of these sources are used on a lot of wrestling pages. LIJ4EVA (talk) 22:37, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

  lol, did you not read my response? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

  You shouldn't be basing your vote on Timothy's analysis, especially when he calls reliable sources "spam links" and misidentifies one of the sources as a primary source when it's clearly not. Timothy's so called "analysis" is poorly made and straight up misconstrued. TheDeviantPro (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

  Which source did I label primary that isn't? One is a reprint of a press release fromt the org and the other two are to the orgs website.  // Timothy :: talk  03:01, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

  The Wrestling Observer (f4wonline) source is not a primary, they did reported on the announcement of the event which they normally do for most pro-wrestling events. It doesn't change the fact that they are a secondary source nor it automatically makes them a primary source just because they reported on it. TheDeviantPro (talk) 04:44, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

  f4wonline reprinted a press release and provided a short summary of the information in the press release. A reprinted or summarized press release is a primary source. [1]  // Timothy :: talk  05:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

  That's complete nonsense. A secondary source can't automatically be called a primary source just because they reported on a announcement/press release from a primary. It doesn't work like that, it's still a secondary source regardless. TheDeviantPro (talk) 06:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

  You are wrong as per WP:PRIMARYSOURCE, "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved." Since this is a reprint, it would be primary. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:41, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment In the vote, there is currently 3 keep votes and 2 delete votes. If a consensus cannot be made, the result will be a no consensus, therefore, keeping the article. Jeffhardyfan08 (talk)

Jeffhardyfan08 (talk) 12:04, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete PROMO for the event, sources given aren't notable. I can't find any that discuss the event at length in what we recognize as RS. The New York Times and the like don't discuss this. Oaktree b (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

  NJPW tweeted about the event and announced it on their official website. Their website alone should be RS like WWE's official website for their articles. LIJ4EVA (talk) 00:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

  It's not, we can't use sources related to the event as reliable sources. Please review what we consider acceptable sources. [2] Oaktree b (talk) 03:10, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

  None of the sources, except the NJPW own website are related the event and independent sources, which are considered reliable as per WP:PW/RS. Wrestling Observer, Fightful and Prowrestling.net have been used in pro-wrestling related articles for YEARS. But the nominator and the people who are saying "delete", says they aren't even though WP:PW/RS says otherwise. TheDeviantPro (talk) 07:05, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

• Keep - I don't see any problems with the sources. There's lots more sources here about the results: https://www.google.com/search?q=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%94%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3+2023&client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=6b1NZPLuEJOh5NoP8pGd4Ak&ved=0ahUKEwiyh8P4s9D-AhWTEFkFHfJIB5wQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%94%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3+2023&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzoICAAQogQQsAM6BQgAEKIEOgUIIRCgAUoECEEYAVDLAlj8BmDaB2gBcAB4AIABXIgBmgOSAQE1mAEAoAEByAECwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1KatoKungLee (talk) 00:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

  Literally in the first page no secondary, reliable sources show up. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:55, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

  • Sportsfan 1234 - https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/njpw-capital-collision-results-4-234245017.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABE5UwYaq8G9Oa5cQy64EUAQgppUIiynqhyKzeK9VQNjMLYXBAEpeV6DE_p-7gmzdonAkafo45uP1qCwFh64sc1pOQgQkRcUX2-NPQh0e6xyV-AJhzmNhHYpkaHZzmVrix7sKTHx_lqXjjJTG5hQNRMKaudeugC1fA7CHCMW7FPS, https://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2023/04/17/njpw-capital-collision-2023-april-15-results-review/, https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/results/njpw-capital-collision-results-415-triple-threat-strong-tag-title-match-kenta-vs-edwards-more and https://www.f4wonline.com/news/new-japan/results/njpw-capital-collision-live-results-strong-tag-team-title-match. Neither website has any connection with New Japan, who held the event.KatoKungLee (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more go...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

• Keep. The sources all check out as legitimate and NJPW typically gets articles for their events after doing some quick research. Failing to see the issue here. The article itself certainly needs some work but given it was just created I think it deserves some time to be brought up to snuff. Passes EVENTCRIT, strong keep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2 kewl fer skool (talk • contribs) 01:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Strong Keep per above. CastJared (talk) 08:32, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
• Keep: So, with any event that is scheduled to take place, you can make an argument that all of the coverage is ROUTINE. There does seem to be coverage from traditional wrestling RA (Wrestling observer, Pwtorch, Pro-Wrestling.net) and also a piece on it from Yahoo! Considering the event is in Japan, it's likely Japanese sources would exist which tips the balance for me. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:41, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.