Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catherine Scorsese

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. some of the keep comments are not based in policy, but a NYT obit is enough to meet WP:GNG and policy based arguments are about equal in both sides. Secret ^account 23:26, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Catherine Scorsese

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Having a famous son doesn't make you famous. No notable roles. JDDJS (talk) 01:02, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep George Washington's mother would disagree. Sometimes having a famous son does make you famous. And the New York Times says that Catherine Scorsese qualifies[1]ShulMaven (talk) 02:15, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Several monuments have been erected to Mary Ball Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia, where she lived from 1772 until her death in 1789. ... The University of Mary Washington, a public university in Fredericksburg, Virginia, was named for her. The Mary Washington Hospital, located in Fredericksburg, is named for her. I do not believe Mother Scorsese has had any such honors; the mother of a well-regarded filmmaker is not quite on the level of the mother of perhaps the founding-est father of the United States. Notability is not inherited, unless it is. That said, Mrs. Scorsese has had a few supporting roles in some major movies, but not enough to pass WP:NACTOR, and does not appear to pass WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG either. I stand at delete. Deadbeef 02:26, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED - Just because her sons famous doesn't mean she gets one happy pass, Fails NACTOR + GNG. –Davey2010 • (talk) 02:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Taking a second look - still saying keep. Here's why: In additon to the full NYTimes obit [2] There were obits in lots of major newspapers. There is some more recent news coverage. [3] this [4] plus academics in film studies writing about her influence on him.[5], [6] Typing her into a Proquest newspaper search turns up feature articles like this one (coping over on ly headline, cit. abstract, not full article): Star of the Kitchen / Scorses's mom doesn't need any direction when cooking: [NASSAU AND SUFFOLK Edition]

By Wendy Lin. STAFF WRITER. Newsday, Combined editions [Long Island, N.Y] 29 Dec 1996: G.03.

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She's a fair actress, mostly playing mothers or bystanders, a wedding guest, a fruit stand customer. But through it all, it is her cooking that has distinguished her. Scorsese supervised the food scenes in "Goodfellas," in which she also acted, as the mother of the character played by Joe Pesci. She has cooked pasta for Sergio Leone and John Cassavetes.

It may be pure sentimentality, but a new cookbook aims to immortalize the cooking and, in smaller measure, the life and times of Catherine Scorsese. "Italianamerican - The Scorsese Family Cookbook," (Random House, $21) is part cookbook, part history of Little Italy in the first half of this century and part biography of the Scorsese family.

The book is co-written with Georgia Downard, the culinary director for the Food Channel Network. But Scorsese deserves much of the credit for shaping the book. His mother, for example, did not gush forward with the tales and recipes that fill the book. Scorsese and Downard apparently had to pull them out of her. Said Scorsese: "I had to director her. I'd say, `Mom, let's discuss this,' or `Mom, do you remember the time . . .?' And she would remember a story or a recipe. direction when cooking"

And this one: ONE ROUTE TO FILM ROLES: HAVE DIRECTOR AS KIN: [3 STAR Edition]

Mitchell, Deborah. Orlando Sentinel [Orlando, Fla] 16 Sep 1991: D1.

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Now [Catherine Scorsese] and Charles Scorsese have membership cards in the Screen Actors Guild and work for a variety of directors - any time a movie is shot in Little Italy, their son acknowledges, "they're in it." Catherine Scorsese appeared in Moonstruck and Godfather III; her husband served as a technical adviser while Coppola was filming in Little Italy. The Scorseses were extras in Prizzi's Honor and spent a week last year working with Spike Lee on Jungle Fever, although their scenes were cut.

There are many similar. And coverage this extensive constitutes notability. Even if she did acquire it by being a mother.ShulMaven (talk) 12:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the links you provide: Gothamist is a blog entry consisting mainly of quotes from the NYT obituary. The Passion of Martin Scorsese and Gangster Priest: The Italian American Cinema of Martin Scorsese are to books which have mentions of Catherine Scorsese in the context of her son. Cinephilia and Beyond has nothing more than a photo of Catherine Scorsese from the set of "Casino".
This is not extensive coverage and none of it deals with the subject in depth. What do we know about her other than she has a famous son, had minor roles in a few of his movies and was a good cook? ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 04:01, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I thoroughly enjoyed Mrs Scorsese's cameos in "Goodfellas" and "Casino", and she sounds like a wonderful lady. But mentions of her in reliable sources are typically in the context of coverage of her son and provide little-to-no in-depth information. We know she has a famous son, had minor roles in a few of his movies and was a good cook, but little else. Being deceased, we can presume that this is lack of coverage is unlikely to change. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 04:01, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:26, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:26, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Obituaries such as the NYT example are clear evidence of notability per the WP:GNG and there's plenty more detail out there in sources such as The Sicilian Factor. Having a more famous relative is not a reason to delete. Andrew D. (talk) 14:09, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This article has links to the book The Immigrant Generations by Robert Casillo, which is very detailed on Martin's family history. Some of that is mentioned in the article on Martin, but the book has much more detail. I added a paragraph about that and the environment where Martin grew up. I think it's worth keeping for that. – Margin1522 (talk) 03:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 19:45, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - she had a good son, who cast her regularly in supporting roles. Too bad that he made her a type cast stereotype. A Times obit is an indicator of notability. Bearian (talk) 20:10, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She has a whole queen-of-the-cameo vibe going on. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 07:15, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.