Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlottetown Police Service

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:26, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charlottetown Police Service

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Fails WP:ORG, specifically with respect to substantial coverage. Nothing but trivial local coverage appears in a web search. This has been a stub since it was created in 2005, which suggests that nobody else in the past 16 years has found substantial coverage to cite either.

WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is a relevant touchpoint, since (like most schools) this is an organization that is part of a municipality. Maybe it should have a small section on Charlottetown, but from the coverage I found (or didn't find), I'd say it should just be deleted or redirected. Apocheir (talk) 18:46, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Apocheir (talk) 18:46, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The comment "has been a stub since it was created in 2005, which suggests that nobody else in the past 16 years has found substantial coverage to cite either" is somewhat of a false premise as it implies that people have been actively trying to find refs continuously for 16 years. Also I don't think wp:schooloutcomes should be considered as a "relevant touchpoint", this isn't a school, it's based on a 5 year old RfC, and we need to be wary wp:creep. This is local police force, servicing a city of 40,000, on an island of 140,000 with some of the lowest crime rates in Canada, including the lowest in the major crimes of murder (2020: zero) attempted murder (2020; zero), assaults, sex assaults, kidnapping, extortion, robbery, etc. It's not New York, but there is significant coverage in local sources, and the fact that this is one of the "oldest police forces in North America" is itself significantly notable. And finally, there's WP:HEY. - wolf 22:25, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The standard is WP:ORGCRIT: "A [...] organization [...] is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." WP:SIRS breaks that down: significant, independent, reliable, secondary. WP:AUD is also relevant: "attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability".

Looking through the references in the current version of the article, three are from charlottetownpolice.com, which is a primary source. Three are from saltwire.com, a local media source. There is a CBC article about 7 new constables being sworn in, which is trivial coverage: "of the hiring, promotion, or departure of personnel." That leaves one CBC article on the 2018 sex scandal. One is less than multiple.

Prince Edward Island having the lowest crime rates in Canada is an interesting fact that might bear mentioning on the PEI page. Statistically I wonder about year-to-year variation in a region with a smaller population: was 2020 an outlier? It's only slightly lower than Ontario in for the "Violent Criminal Code violations (total)" row. It's not immediately clear how those rates apply to Charlottetown itself, or to what degree the Charlottetown police are responsible for those rates being slow. Crime rates depend on many factors, of which policing is only one.

The statement "one of the oldest police forces in North America" is uncited and of dubious significance. As per History of criminal justice, modern police forces only came into existence in the mid-1800s, but have many precedents, and often the "founding" of a police agency involved the realignment and absorption of existing organizations. The earliest in North America was Toronto in 1834, versus Charlottetown twenty years later.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how this deserves its own article. That's not a value judgement about the Charlottetown Police Service, it's a judgment about the available sources. Apocheir (talk) 00:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you've missed my point; I mentioned the stats that I did, again, to point out that that unlike the Toronto Police or NYPD, there isn't going to a plethora of news stories (which, let's face it, make up the majority of refs) about major crimes involving the service or about any internal politics and scandals. But, the P&Gs you've cited have been met, I believe. That's not a value judgement about your rather rash AfD, it's just that some articles aren't as large as others. Doesn't mean we need to delete them all. - wolf 23:24, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, jooc, how come I'm the only one here adding content? Did you do a wp:before check? - wolf 00:10, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The length of the article isn't in question, it's the WP:NOTABILITY of the topic. I am very confused that you believe this article in its current state demonstrates notability: I recommend reviewing WP:ORG. If you have found significant coverage in secondary sources that I overlooked, by all means add it to the article. Apocheir (talk) 00:50, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not what I asked. - wolf 03:54, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - in addition to the significant provincial coverage, there has been national coverage over the years. I've added a couple of references. Nfitz (talk) 00:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think much of the disagreement here results from different conceptions of what "significant coverage" means with regards to WP:ORG. I'd be interested in what the other editors think: which of the references on the page as it is now constitute significant coverage, and why? -Apocheir (talk) 23:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There should be no motive for a deletion in this regard. The page has significant coverage from Canada's highest-level newspaper of record: the CBC and there is a steady flow of coverage from other Canadian newspapers. Multi7001 (talk) 02:51, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.