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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. The established editors agree that the subject does not meet our inclusion requirements. I have only summarily read the inordinately lengthy opinions of the various and presumably related IPs and new (and/or sock) accounts, but their arguments generally do not address the relevant policies and guidelines and are therefore not persuasive.

Notice: Because I have no desire to read a similar volume of blather on my talk page, all who disagree with this closure are expressly requested to appeal to WP:DRV directly without contacting me first.  Sandstein  19:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cláudio César Dias Baptista

[edit]
Cláudio César Dias Baptista (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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A little hard to sort out, but this individual does not appear to pass WP:N. He was involved with a notable musical group at one time, but I can see no substantial references beyond his own webpage and Portuguese Wikipedia. Article was created by someone claiming to be his pupil writing from the subjects computer. I am also nominating his book Géa separately. Daniel 15:33, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article Géa and the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista which En Wiki members considered at first good to be published here are suffering a political attack from the En Wiki member named Antiuser.Cláudio César Dias Baptista (talk) 16:04, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: All I did was remove a piece of original research from the article. The matter is being discussed at WP:AN/I#WikiHounding / Article ownership issues / Possible IP socks.. XXX antiuser eh? 16:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is not 'all you did'. You are a Brazilian, and it's extremelly significant that a Brazilian is attacking the page with the work of another Brazilian, a page that was until that moment considered good by all the people from other countries who contributed to its making.187.14.112.27 (talk) 17:47, 10 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.14.112.27 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I agree with the IP. Reading the discussion in WP:AN/I#WikiHounding / Article ownership issues / Possible IP socks. I make the (yes) great question which is proposed there: 'Why just a Brazilian is deconstructing the page about another Brazilian which was accepted by non-Brazilian En Wiki members'???187.13.5.1 (talk) 17:52, 10 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.5.1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Daniel (in the first entering above) is ill-informed: the 'someone' has a name: Rafael Konzen. Rafael didn't create the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista utilizing the subjects computer, but with his own computer. Rafael is a reader of Cláudio's books, is also his pupil in audio and electronics, visited Cláudio (the subject) and in Cláudio's computer Rafael wrote an answer in the Discussion page of Cláudio César Dias Baptista page, which answer was signed by the own Cláudio, who was logged in, to show the clear truth to everybody, and Cláudio signed it up with him. Cláudio did that to preserve the e-mail adress of his pupil, which he offered in that answer, if via message to his e-mail, which he presented there, even with the risk of suffering spam. That's a very different thing than writting the page in the subject's computer!187.13.1.78 (talk) 18:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.1.78 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

They didn't create the page with the subject's computer, but still created the page with an IP from Rio de Janeiro state while living in Manaus? XXX antiuser eh? 18:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 01:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 01:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 01:27, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - I have searched available English and Portuguese sources. At most, the references are from non-notable "review" websites and social media. The most reliable sources mention him only as the brother of the notable Arnaldo Baptista. Of note, the pt.wiki is also tagged for COI and POV concerns. jsfouche ☽☾Talk 02:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Mr. JSFouche: When you write 'I have searched available English and Portuguese sources' you should have mentioned which are these sources. The entry you have done here shows only your opinion, which is one or both: polarized or ill-informed. Cláudio César Dias Baptista is mentioned in several books about the group Os Mutantes which he created with his coleague Raphael Vilardi when Arnaldo was learning to play bass guitar... with Cláudio, in the instrument Cláudio manufactured for him, an instrument which is still in good conditions, although his owner Arnaldo is not more, because he attempted suicide. When you affirm that Cláudio César Dias Baptista is 'only the brother of the notable Arnaldo Baptista', you show that you are not well informed about Arnaldo and his ex-wife Rita Lee's life. As you can read Portuguese (or how could you search the sources you mentioned?), please study more the history of Os Mutantes and you will, perhaps, be surprised! I read English and Portuguese, and I found this paragraph in the page "Nem Plágio Nem Coincidência", inside Cláudio's site http://www.ccdb.gea.nom.br - there are words from him and also from Rita, please read: 'Afinal, se Rita Lee me escreve hoje (mais exatamente, escreveu-mo em 17-04-2006) o que se segue aspeado e em cor castanha, posso, sem dúvida, considerar-me um dos Mutantes e usar a palavra nos ao referir-me ao grupo: "aliás, indiscutivelmente para mim você sempre foi o cabeça daquele nosso filme dos anos 60, sem a sua presença Los Mutas jamais sairiam do quintal da rua Venâncio Ayres para o mundo - Rita Lee". ' If you can't read Portuguese, Mr. JSFouche, (and because this entry is for everybody in En Wiki), here is the translation: 'After all, if Rita Lee writes me today (more accurately, wrote to me on 04/17/2006) what follows in quotes and brown, I certainly consider myself one of Mutantes and use the word we when referring to the group, "moreover, undoubtedly for me was always you the head of our film of the 1960 years, without your presence Los Mutas would never let the backyard on street Venancio Ayres to the world - Rita Lee. " '. Knowing well the history of Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Os Mutantes, I can affirm this: "Without Cláudio César Dias Baptista there wouldn't exist Os Mutantes, without Os Mutantes there wouldn't be Rita Lee nor Arnaldo Baptista. So, and based in what Rita said herself (reproduced above), it's easy to conclude: Without Cláudio there wouldn't exist Rita Lee nor Arnaldo Baptista - as great artists. That's because Cláudio, with Raphael Vilardi, created the musical group which became Os Mutantes. More about Cláudio? Here it is: in the book 'A Divina Comédia dos Mutantes' (http://www.livrariacultura.com.br/scripts/cultura/resenha/resenha.asp?sid=8713322091361139913270881&nitem=65984) by the Brazilian Journalist Carlos Calado, Cláudio César Dias Baptista is mentioned almost one hundred times, more than any other Os Mutantes members, including Arnaldo Baptista, Sérgio Dias and Rita Lee. The book is in several bookstores to be read by anyone. Please read it and I am certain that you will change your opinion. Yet more about Cláudio? Here it is: he is called by all audio experts in Brazil as 'The Pope of Audio', not only because of his work as a member of the group Os Mutantes but by his work as the founder and the general director of EDITELE - Nova Eletrônica magazine, published during ten years (1977 - 1987) in all Portuguese reading countries, 65,000 copies/month, distributed by Editora Abril, where you may find seven hundred pages of his technical articles. In his site, http://www.ccdb.gea.nom.br, you can see many movies via this page (http://www.ccdb.gea.nom.br/videos_produtos_ccdb.html) and this page (http://www.ccdb.gea.nom.br/video_ccdb_44.html) with Cláudio lecturing about audio and presenting some of his great products, as the 'CCDB 44' audio console. Of course, you will find that material and much more about the importance and notability of Cláudio César Dias Baptista if you are sincere and wish to do Justice in the discussion which is running here.187.13.32.209 (talk) 04:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.32.209 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
        • Let the page complete during its judgement! I noted that this Antiuser is removing important information from the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista during its period of judgement for deletion. That's not a good policy. I would kindly suggest that the page is restored to its complete form during that period. How can people judge the merit of a page which content is being reduced? That procedure is not what I understand as Justice nor what I understand as En Wiki policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.13.17.74 (talk) 03:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.17.74 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    • Do not delete - Let's be rational and cool, analyzing the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista in the light of what we can read about his opus in page Géa, significantly proposed also for deletion in the same day (...). Here are the positive points: The author invested more than ten years of his life in writting a book, moreover, a twelve 250 pages volume book. The author composed a 1,000 pages dictionary to complement the book. The author utilized a lexicon twice the William Shakespeare lexicon in his whole opera and six times the lexicon of Camões in "Os Lusíadas". The author created a new language with extra words, doesn't matter if it's named an 'extraterrestrial language' or not. The author illustrated himself the twelve volumes with more than 700 3D pictures, so, he had to learn 3D Computer Graphics to do these illustrations and also the thirteen covers for Géa. The author studied programming languages for computer to create himself the active pages in a site also created by himself to publish himself the book. The author applied his audio experience to perfection the sound of the reading. The author wrote also metrified poems inside the book. The author of Géa composed music for the book. The author proposed complete inventions in the books which could work if tested in laboratory. The author abandoned his profitable carreer in audio to write the book. The author created more than one thousand characters for the book. The description of these characters is interesting in the page Géa. The author presented a Theory, the 'biorrelatividade' in the book. The stories presented in the page are captivating for people who has the habit of reading books - at least they captivate myself. The quantity of references is more than enough and the quality of some of these references is unquestionable, as it's the case of the reporting in Jornal da Tarde, in the Revista Trip (very important in Brazil). And here are the negative points: The book is written in Portuguese, not yet translated to English; Brazil is not England nor USA; people who see the page Géa here in En Wiki can't easily judge the merit of the book because they can't read it. Now I ask myself: Are those negative poits really negative? Is not perhaps an injustice being done against a perhaps great work as it was done also against Don Quixote of Miguel de Cervantes and so many great books which were recognized long time after their writting? Or as the pictures of Vincent van Gogh, who sold only one of them during his life and which were recognized so late? If you search En Wiki for pages about other books, you will see that very few, if any, has the merits I mentioned above for the book Géa. So, I am forced to conclude that the cause of the deletion proposal for both pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Géa is not the lack of importance of the opus, but another unknown cause, external to the page itself. And I don't want to be one of the persons who will be remembered as the ones who deleted the page of a book that shows everything to be perhaps recognized as a great work or the page of its author. I vote for the permanence of the pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Géa in En Wiki.William T. Johannes (talk) 03:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I have blocked user:William T. Johannes as a checkuser-confirmed sockpuppet of user:Cláudio César Dias Baptista. JohnCD (talk) 16:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

'You' who? Are you attacking personally Mr. Cláudio César Dias Baptista? Are you answering to Mr. William T. Johannes (in this case you consider him a real person)? I am not one nor another, but can see by your tremendous effort in erasing the information about the lexicon of Mr. Baptista against William Shakespeare's lexicon and even to erase two of the best En Wiki pages (Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Géa, that there is much more than 'En Wiki policy' behind that effort, which is also at least strange when coming from a Brazilian, that you also are - is that effort due to political convictions?187.13.77.232 (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.77.232 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]


Why Delete? - Why delete part of text about Cláudio César Dias Baptista? Mr. Cláudio have a lot of experience with audio and I heard about him from friends of specific forums to discuss about audio equipments. So, I decided to find him and I found his website where I met him and his books. I read his books in your website. I'm Brazilian and I read his books in Portuguese, not only literature but technical book of professional recording of audio. He is a guru of audio here in Brazil, all people wich work in professional sound systems know his name, or his initials: CCDB. He created with his friend, a band called Os Mutantes, and developed a lot of incredible equipments to modify sounds and create a special sound, unique in Brazil. I can't accept that the text about him could being deleted. I ask you to let full the text about Mr. Cláudio César Dias Baptista. 201.75.82.71 (talk) 13:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)— 187.13.77.232 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Gentlemen, Claudio César dias Baptista is a very relevant electronic engineer and technician who supported the "Os Mutantes" band fros the 1960's to the 1970's. He invented, created or improved several electronic devices for use in music, including P.A. systems, soundboards, guitar effect pedals and other creations. Also he was publisher and writer for "Nova Eletronica" magazine and other publications for more than 20 years. Other than that he is a published fiction writer and plastic artist. As a journalist I can assure that he is worthy of an article and delet the current article would be an mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabiopa (talk • contribs) 16:37, 11 June 2011 (UTC) — Fabiopa (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

    • Do not delete
Gentlemen, I cannot accept so tremendous disrespect with someone who gave enormous contribution to audio development in Brazil.
I can see clearly something like a personal cruzade against Cláudio Cesar on comments from antiuser. Why this?
I am a professor at Universidade Federal do Espírito Santo - UFES (since 1987), Brazil, on subjects Graphic production and Audio production (mainly)inside the graduation course of Journalism, Advertising and Audiovisual (prior known as Cinema graduation course).
I am a researcher on sound, acoustics, perception and semiotics. Sorry but this is not my intention to present my curriculum, but to contextualize. I've started a video docummentary about Claudio Cesar Dias Baptista in 1993 financed by UFES, but I coudn't finalize by lack of financial resources. Recently I've digitalized all this matrices (Hi-8 tapes) and remembering that, I can prove that almost all photos used on Calado's quoted book (above) about Mutantes were extracted from Mr. Baptista's particular album. Lots of them only can be possessed by a Mutantes member. The Calado's Book was released on 1995.
Mr. Baptista is a unique person which stong personality, I know him personally, professionaly, and as his ex-pupil (yes! antiuser, pupil).The same way I was pupil of Mr. Mario Carramilo Neto; Ms. Santaella, PhD (take a look in her curriculum); Mr. Jorge Vieira Albuquerque, PhD and others. In the academic metièr (Post Graduate Programs, at least) be a pupil of some professor and/or researcher is reason to be proud of.
Because his strong personality, Mr. Baptista had conquered several unfriendly opinions about himself. But he takes seriously every task in which he involves himself. So, when anyone (which doesn't know him) reads (or listen) something about his work, which sounds exagerated, uses to doubt or untrust. The reason is because here in Brazil we have lots of artists, writers, journalists, politicians (specially) which tells much more than they do.
Mutantes is a band which is known (now!) around the world. but at this time (60's) it was proihibited to import audio equipment (among others things) here in Brazil. So he had projected an built amplifiers, mixing consoles, and instruments. Everybody knows Mutantes, specially his brothers Arnaldo Baptista and Sergio Dias, but not everybody knows Mr. Claudio Cesar.
Please see this articles from tradicional and well known audio magazines in Brazil
From Backstage magazine, Nº8 (1995) - The hidden face of Mutantes (original title in portuguese: A Face oculta dos Mutantes)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqZTQyMTdkZGYtOWYxMy00ZjQ2LWI5MzUtMGRiZjdiMGQwMjRm&hl=pt_BR
From Backstage magazine, Nº 27 (1997) - An audio Luthier ( Orig. title in portuguese: Um luthier de áudio)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNGZiYTkwYWMtNTQxYi00MGI5LTg5MDQtZmZlNzUxMGE4YmU4&hl=pt_BR
Música & tecnologia - ed. 28 [1991] - Cover history (Mr. Baptista appears with innovative 12 channel mixer with a size of a4 paper format totally conceived and designed in CADD).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNjM0YWEyMDQtNTVhOS00ODNhLWJkYzQtNjdiNDU1YzU2MzZj&hl=pt_BR
Greg Mackie made the same efforts to audio development, in the United States, and then have founded Mackie Company. The difference between both is particular character of Brazilian People which pleases himsef in depreciate, the history, the persons, the institutions. An interesting Brazilian film (Macunaima: the hero without any character) based on Mário de Andrade's book (released in 1928) aproaches part of this brazilian behavior.
This situation, as others in culture (as language) replicates itself and uses to last for years. In audio area, recording studios, professional sound systems, still happens a lot. In Addiction it's common to depreciate works, persons, to enlight his own work. Strange but it's true. Politicians do this a lot.
Mr. Baptista is not the only one which is not recognized by this work. In 2002 I've presented and published a work called É possível existir alta fidelidade em áudio? uma análise dos sistemas de captação, gravação e reprodução sonoras à luz da teoria peirceana da Percepção (ISBN: 85-89029-01-8) [Is it possible to exists high fidelity on audio? An analysis of capturing, recording and reproduction of sound under enlight of Peircean theory of perception]. I've needed to quote Mr Baptista's work and from others and I've found myself in front of a kind of situation that I coudn't to prove if they really exists, due to lack of information (we didn't have Internet fast connections, nor Google neither Wikipedia).
That's the point where I can reach! This work contains quotations about three important person which have made efforts to audio development (there are others, not only these people...): Mr. Paulo Fernando Cunha Albuquerque, Mr. Homero Sette Silva and Mr. Claudio Cesar Dias Daptista. To do that quotation, I've needed to create a section in that document called Appendix, in which I've wrote text containing tecnhical explanation and biographical information (evem summed). In this link you can find this work and to check:
http://www.cpdee.ufmg.br/~semea/anais/artigos/JulioMartins1.pdf (see page 30).
So I hope I had had contributed with consistent information. This work are available on line since 2002 on Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, or UFMG.
But there is a detail I would like to talk about yet: Mr baptista is not an Electronic Engineer, at least with graduation course. He didn't presented himself (in his published brochures about his equipment) as Engineer. He used to present himself as electronic technician.
But this is not reason to reduce his role on audio development in Brazil. That's the opposite. He studied a lot and in good and trusted sources. Every matter I've learned from him (while his pupil 23 years ago!), or reading his instructions manuals, have revealed itsef integrally correct along the path I've took throughout audio, acoustics, recording, reproduction...
We cannot say the same about lots of articles which we can find every day.
His work was recognized by Audio Engineering Society (USA) which gave him the title of member, which is gave only to Engineers. Probably he was the first brazilian audio professional to obtain this title from AES. The CREA (an agency which is encharged of inspect professionals of Engineering and Architecture) gave to Mr. baptista the title of Eletronic Technician.
This is a kind of thing that I've mentioned above. A lot of brazilian audio technicians like to entitles himselves as Recording engineer, Audio Engineer, Sound engineer, because it's cool... Sounds like an important professional or person... The same way they pleases themselves in to depreciate the work of serious people.
So finnally it will be a terrible mistake to delete this page. I vote Against. Do not Delete.
Reading my published paper (quoted above) you wil find my name and workplace. I exist. I'm not anonymous.
Probably I am one of three or four persons in Brazil which have hours of technical explanations about audio taped in video (recently digitalized to upload to video stream portals). These video shootings (never edited until now) prove undoubtly who is Claudio Cesar Dias Baptista and his previous work as an Artisan.Jcms1506br (talk) 20:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC) — Jcms1506br (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    • Do not delete!. Mr.Baptista is a Known and briliant personality and we (brazilians) don't want your history be erased from En Wiki pages. So here I am and earnestly beg you to DON'T delete the Cláudio César Dias Baptista's page. Mr. Claudio is a creative writer, in that involved us with his stories and by far one of the personalities who contributed most in growth of Brazilian music, as well as Brazilian literature and audio! My vote is DO NOT DELETE, because he is one of the most important person for cultural development in my country. Likalileal (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC) — Likalileal (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Weak keep: Mr. Baptista might meet WP:N for his work as an electronic and sound engineer, but probably not as an author. The article would require a substantial rewrite for that, though. XXX antiuser eh? 05:33, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's Cyberbullying, Mr. Antiuser!' I can see the flag you put ever with your comments, but you are a Brazilian as can be seen in your member's page here in En Wiki and you also 'works' in Pt Wiki. It's very easy to track your comments in all pages of En Wiki and of Pt Wiki, where you are moving a cruzade against the notable Cláudio César Dias Baptista. Fortunately for Brazil, there are people distinguished as Mr. Baptista and Mr. Júlio Martins, whose comment above you can not call it weak. Poor's who want to excel at the expense of another person's name. You finally agree that Mr. Baptista is an important person in the audio field; so, you show the merit that (even with severe difficulty) you can 'learn'. But when you say that 'probably' in your comment immediately above, when you say that 'probably not as an author', you show how your mind 'works': 'probably' based in what? Did you read his magnificent book Géa? I did! It's the best book I read ever, and I've read many of the Classics. You accuse Mr. Baptista had written the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista and the page Géa, hunting IPs meticulously, but it also sees the cyberbullying that you have been practicing. I am a student of Mr. Baptista, like many others I live in the vicinity of his home, several come from other Brazilian states and some other countries to know him in person and not just via the Internet. For this reason my IP is from the same region of my master's IP, as well as all the others that you pointed in the hunt for IPs that resulted in the blocking of pages here on En Wiki. This is all a shame for Brazil and extends to the country whose flag you display here in all your comments.187.14.119.154 (talk) 09:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.14.119.154 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Why 'not as an author Antiuser? People are discussing the book Géa here on En Wiki because of your cyberbullying, but Mr. Baptista did not only write this book. He wrote others which modestly appear in the list of page Cláudio César Dias Baptista, and he has written hundreds of pages of technical articles, which were read in all Portuguese speaking countries, 65,000 publications/month from Revista Nova Eletrônica. His book 'CCDB - Gravação Profissional' is called 'The Bible of Audio' in Brazil! The book 'Geínha' is a so vast and beautiful work as Géa. And he wrote it for Children and Youth - that simple fact, that attention to young people shows his character! Shows also that he merits the title of author, and he is a great one - not all great writers are members of Academia Brasileira de Letras and one of them, the magnificent Monteiro Lobato, in whose same level I see Cláudio César Dias Baptista, refused to become a member! The books he wrote are found in section 'CCDB Livros' of his website, http://www.ccdb.gea.nom.br, for you (and any honorable reader of this paragraph) to evaluate and see whether or not Mr. Baptista is important as an author. Mr. Baptista utilizes his complete name in his personal En Wiki's page, not a codename. That your 'Probably' reveals your character! Also reveals you character the fact that you utilize the 'Antiuser' codename, not your complete name (there are lots of Adrianos in the world, but you tell only that your name is Adriano in your personal En Wiki's page) the presence in all your comments of the noble Italy flag behind which colors you (who says in your personal page here in En Wiki 'I'm a Brazilian-born Italian', so, a Brazilian), hide yourself.187.13.13.14 (talk) 10:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.13.14 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Weakish Keep I agree with antiuser on saying that he is more notable as an engineer but not as an author. Maybe a section or a mention of him being an author should suffice. Probably notable enough. Doh5678 (talk) 19:03, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS PAGE. IT WILL BE A GREAT MISTAKE!'
User doh5678; I agree integrally with you a proof is necessary. I was workin on and I finished now. Please read.
  • 'WEAK KEEP ?' 'NOT AS AN AUTHOR?' HOW COULD IT BE POSSIBLE ANTIUSER?
How (or why) you think you have the power to decide who is a writer and who isn't?
Ok. Wikipedia is a colaborative work. We need filters to keep the integrity of information. Your intention is Good.
But or you give us some objective information which justificates your judgement or will be clear to us all, that's not a neutral oppinion and you could have other motivations to act and to judge this way.
I am doing this right now. All of you can access this document I've create with photos of the first book published by Mr. Baptista. This document contains photos of some pages and fit itself perfectly to proof another thing: Géa is an Opus which was born several years ago.
Please check this document out: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNzUwZDhlYjQtZWEzZC00NDRjLTk3MTUtOTA4ZDJkNmUzOWE3&hl=pt_BR
This book was properly registered at Biblioteca Nacional (National Libray at the city of Rio de Janeiro). It is an undoubtable proof that Mr. CCDB is an author and Writer.
There are more. Lots or articles he had published in a brazilian magazine called Nova Eletrônica (New Electronics). Scanned copies of this articles are trade a lot through internet exactly because the technical information still perfectly correct until today (except in the cases of the technology has evolved, of course). I'll post some of them as soon as possible. In the case of the book, he was rewritten and could be read it on mr. Baptista's site.
And in case of you or any other person mention that is propaganda, or something like this I must remember:
We are in new era. Now we don't need to beg to commercial publishers to publish our writings. We can do it by ourselves. There are a lot of printing presses which could help any author to publish your writings without depends on any publisher. The first Book of Isaac Newton was published by himself financed by a friend [NEWTON, Isaac. Optics Translated by André Koch Torres Assis, with notes and introduction. São Paulo : Editora da Universidade de São Paulo, 2002] and equally based on information inside the brilliant docummentary about light, called Light fantastic from BBB, 2004, directed by Paul Sen]
There are more. There is an incredible book of the Mutantes's History (written in english) told by an inside person: Mr. Baptista. But it couldn't be published (Yet) because depends on permission of some important people. I have the PDF file. I've red. But all I can do it's to assure you that this book exists.
Finally there is Géa, and Geínha (something like 'Little Géa' written to kids and teens).
I'm not an specialist in literacture but I've been studied language (science of all languages: Semiotics) for a long time. This a really opus.
Géa has all components that great opus Have. There's no doubt. And there's no Doubt that Mr. Baptista is an author and writer. He was indeed, for a long period of time electronic technician, but writer too. Now he only lives from and for Géa, Geínha and, who knows, other book in future.
I don't Know if it's the most important, or one of 100 most important opus, or one of 1000 most important (an so on...)
Doesn't Matter. It's an important opus. I've examinated all books. I've received the PDF files on 2006, 2nd semester. I've red several parts. But the curiosity make us to walk throughout the books and I didn't read all books (each one from the scratch to end page) unafortunatelly by lack of time. It's a charmed text, we start and we cannot stop (how many writers can do that?). And if you consider that the characters are inspired on a real past life of a people and a band which still are conquering fans auntil today around the world, all the history gains up a kind of own bright. Mr. Baptista certainly will not conffirm that information because is equal to tell someone the end of a film.
What kind of proof do you need now?
ANTIUSER and others: Certainly there are a lot of people who try to use wikipedia to promote yourself, your company, your products... without merits.
Steve Jobs is here at Wikipedia, only to quote an visible case. I don't have anything about him. It's promotion, or not? But we cannot apart the person from his work.
Please let's focus ours best efforts to them, to maintain the wikipedia's a trustful source. [OOOPs! I need to add]: Of course, 'them' not includes Mr. Jobs, nor another famous people, with merits, OK? There are a lot and there are a lot of people who loves to take advantage of wikipedia, But Mr. Baptista certainly isn`t one of them.
Persons, companies, artists are using the most sophisticated strategies, most of all PAID, gentleman... PAID! I Know very well the advertising market in Brasil and generically, abroad the world. It's part of my work as a professor an researcher.. Social Networks, Wiki pages, Blogs, everything is are being studied to be used as mass media (which in fact, they are aready, indeed!) as a commercial way.
So what we have to do is to keep alert and never give up in find out a more efficient way to deal with.
I hope I have helped to undone this mistake.Jcms1506br (talk) 19:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


DO NOT DELETE!
The person called antiuser commits Cyberbullying here.
I'm an audio researcher since the mid of the 90's and i have lots of copies of CCDB's articles published at the brazilian magazine called "Nova Eletronica" and a lot of copies of the original catalogs of the CCDB equipments. I'm a onwner of the briliant amplifier CCDB BI-1000, a powerful machine of 1000 watts rms, built in the 70's, when was forbidden to import electronic equipment from another countries, because Brazil was under the Brazilian Military Regime since 1964, regime that was sponsored by the USA because of the international division of labour.
CCDB (or Mr. Baptista) is a brilliant inventor. He projected and designed his own electronic equipment, that was largely used by Os Mutantes, a great band that was an evolution of another band founded by him and his brothers. A lot of CCDB amplifiers are in use until today, since the 70's, without needing of repairs. I NEVER saw an foreigner amplifier like our brazilian's CCDB equipment. Megatron Turbo BR (talk) 03:24, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — Megatron turbo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • DO NOT Delete:
about User HRAFN :(bombastic advocacy from the topic's supporters notwithstanding)...
There isn't a bombastic advocacy at all and I'm not a suporter. I'm a professor of a respected university in Brazil which offers more than 90 courses. What I am doing, and not in an anonymous way (see my page), is presenting facts, in defense of a Brazilian person who is notable. Some users have claimed about lack of proof. It's fair. So I Gave. In my Defense, I have to admit, I was sometimes more emotional that the subjects requires. OK. But this does not invalidate the documents I've posted. Aren't they a reliable sources? An article I've published with ISBN?... Interviews published in brazilian magazines? A book published by Mr. baptista, with proper authoral register? Please be objective and neutral.Take a look in these documents.201.79.224.137 (talk) 15:53, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 201.79.224.137 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

In time... The IP 201.79.224.137 is mine: Jcms1506br I was logged in, but the update failed... So I am finishing now.Jcms1506br (talk) 16:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

      • Do not delete Aren't 'third party sources' the persons who support here the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista? Aren't these third party sources (those persons) presenting other third party sources, as is the case of Professor Júlio Martins Jcms1506br, with his brilliant and rich comments and references above? The fact is that there is a cruzade against a notable Brazilian, moved by another Brazilian, Mr. Antiuser. The page Cláudio César Dias Baptista present much more than the minimum references required by En Wiki, and the majority of these references are strong and notable. There are pages in En Wiki about persons who did nothing for the world, as for example some that you may find via Baronetage of the United Kingdom page. And there are pages about musicians, for example Túlio Mourão who were not more than hired persons in the Os Mutantes group and with only one (!) reference, only one external link (!) who nobody proposed for deletion. Cláudio César Dias Baptista was the founder of Os Mutantes group, was the person because of whom that group reached international renown, the page of his name is extremelly complete in references... but is being proposed for deletion. Why? Without him, there would never exist Os Mutantes and much less Túlio Mourão would have a page here in En Wiki. I can see only one reason: Cyberbulling, envy, people trying to make name at the expense of his illustrious name. So, although this page is not a place for voting but for consensus, I 'vote' for do not delete. 187.13.41.253 (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.41.253 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Do not blather:
  1. Are "the persons who support here the page" "reliable third-party sources"? NO. Read WP:Identifying reliable sources.
  2. Are any of your comments even remotely relevant to Wikipedia's notability criteria (as opposed to WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS and similar arguments)? NO.
  3. Are any of your comments anything other than further "bombastic advocacy"? NO. Not in the slightest.
HrafnTalkStalk(P) 11:57, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
DO NOT DELETE
"Do not blather", HRAFN? How ? So when a user try do defend a notable brazilian author, inventor, electronic technician, he is blathering? When you say that, you are judging.
I've read lots of wikipedia rules. Your and others are breaking several of them (ex. Be polite... And you: "Othercrapexists").
You say (wrote) "Are "the persons who support here the page" "reliable third-party sources"? NO.. I am one of them, so I am not a reliable? Are you judging me? An article I've published with ISBN is not too? The Sources I've provided are not too?... O-ou!.. There's something weird in progress. Is it why he is a Brazilian? My defense is not reliable because I am a brazilian too? I cannot believe.201.79.224.137 (talk) 16:23, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In time... The IP 201.79.224.137 is mine Jcms1506br I was logged in, but the update failed... So I am finishing now.Jcms1506br (talk) 16:34, 14 June 2011 (UTC)Jcms1506br (talk) 16:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(i) "How?" By making lengthy, histrionic diatribes that have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with legitimate issues before an AfD (e.g. WP:Notability, WP:NOT, WP:NOR). When you "try do defend a notable brazilian author, inventor, electronic technician" without addressing such issues, you are "blathering". (ii) Have you read WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS? It points out that pointing out that "there are pages in En Wiki about persons who did nothing for the world" is IRRELEVANT to whether THIS article should be kept. Kindly read it before criticising me for citing it. (iii) WP:NOR = NO Wikipedia editor is a reliable source (not you, not me, not anybody) for the purposes of citation -- only material published outside Wikipedia can be. So no, nothing written on this AfD can possibly be "reliable third-party sources". (iv) Stop getting your knickers in a twist and reading things into my statement that I did not actually say ("Are you judging me? ..." etc, etc, etc, etc). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • For your meditation, Administrators of English Wikipedia. I know the En Wiki has rules. These rules are valuable and the fruit of long-term work of its members, without forgetting its founders, Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger. Herself Wikipedia and every page that it contains have behind its creation and its existence the human impulse to friendship, excitement, enthusiasm. Who would create a page to present something that is not emotional, not something to which this value (and value is the result of emotion, not only reason)? Who would create a virtual encyclopedia without this magnificent engine that is the emotion? So if there is a page Cláudio César Dias Baptista and a page Géa on En Wiki, that's because there is enough emotion in people who created those pages; It's because that emotion and reason and objectivity emerged and turned the pages into reality. For the same reason, emotion, friendship, people find themselves inducted as members of the En Wiki devoted admiration and respect for Cláudio César Dias Baptista and his work, both as a specialist in audio and as a writer of Géa and several other books. These people, in launching these pages and their reasons for their entries here to ask for not deletion are not a 'party' politics, have no commercial interest or personal, but have that emotion and friendship and the respect and admiration for the writer and the work. For all that I ask the respected members of the Administration of English Wikipedia, the ones who will reach the consensus on whether or not erase the pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Géa, that meditate upon this modest paragraph, also the result of emotion, to consult their souls and their reasons for everything they do - and if they feel and conclude the same that I, do not delete these pages, which only bring the Good and the Information, besides being a milestone in the En Wiki, with this discussion in favor of Emotion and Friendship, and this does not violate the En Wiki Rules and the Reason. 187.13.81.213 (talk) 11:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.81.213 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
      • How to improve an article which is semi-protected?. There is a tag in the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista proposing the improvement of the article. When I was trying to include the strong refferences I found in the above entering from Professor Júlio Martins Jcms1506br, I discovered that the page cannot be edit; so, cannot be improved, at least by me, who am not member of En Wiki. What can I do to improve the page, which I think is very good, or what can En Wiki members with access to the page do to improve it with the above references? Thank you in advance for what you may do! 187.13.107.90 (talk) 12:40, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.107.90 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
      • Ne pas Effacer!!!!

Comment peut on manquer de bon sens à ce point Messieurs Antiusers!! Seulement le nom Anti dit beaucoup sur votre engagement Anti-positif... Non, les écrits de Mr CCDB sont de toute relevance, et bien-fondés sur la liberté de créer et d´imaginer, Imagine all the people building for, astead theese fighting against... Anti, contre, refus, négation... la Science fiction est tournée vers le futur, et Mr CCDB est un inventeur reconnu dans son pays et jusqu´au Japon, allons allons, n´effacez pas ces pages... 15:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)Philippe Ingrand187.67.96.132 (talk) 15:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.67.96.132 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]


To Whom It May Concern:
I am Sergio Dias Baptista, founder and leader of the musical group Os Mutantes. My career with the band and as a solo artist has been a extremely happy one, for I only found great achievement on its history. I am co-founder of the Tropicalist (Tropicalismo) movement in Brazil in the sixties. We as a band printed an unforgettable mark on the Brazilian musical and social history, along with our brothers in the movement, such as Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil (former Brazilian President Lula's Art Minister).
I was graciously awarded, along with my band, the highest title of the city of São Paulo, one of the largest in the world because of our contribution to the history and the weight of our work in regard to the quality and longevity of our musical and social work. (Medal Padre Anchieta). We as a band have countless awards on my country, we were twice Latin Grammy nominee in USA in 2007 and our work has been praised worldwide by the formers of opinions and great minds of the musical scene such as Beck, David Byrne, Sean Lennon, Flaming Lips, Devendra Banhart and countless others besides an immense press recognition from USA Today, to the cover of The New York Times, to the best world art magazines, journals and web, such as Mojo (magazine) (UK), Time out, and countless others.
I am here not to present myself, but to recommend an extremely valuable person who influenced our history in Brazil.
I find an absurd to even “question the Fact that Cláudio César Dias Baptista is or isn't a fundamental piece in the History of the Brazilian and entire world's musical universe. Without he's known contribution to my band and all of the other members of the worldly acclaimed Tropicália movement (acclaimed by the most prominent formers of opinion of the world universal musical movement) such as Beck, David Byrne, Sean Lennon, The White Stripes, Belle & Sebastian, Devendra Banhart, and several others, is at minimum a ridiculous waste of time of the precious members of this community.
The fact that the name CCDB and Cláudio César Dias Baptista is of notorious value for Brazilian’s historical reality, is of complete and solid Fact, fact this already acknowledged in the highest fonts of the world's musical and technical media.
Besides this the fact that he's a brilliant writer and poet is beyond reproach and he's work is recognized and already published in several medias such as Nova Eletrônica Magazine - EDITELE, and the uncountable sources of articles written about him and he's work.
So I wonder what is the purpose of this obvious deliberate attack of a single individual which we the “public” have no knowledge of he's real motives.
I can't believe that for an instant anyone who knows about the Brazilian cultural, social and musical history, would ever even consider a barbaric act of destruction and again cultural repression dictatorship and censure, Isn’t it enough what we Brazilians already suffered under the military government and they're censors, are we all turning back into the disgusting tortures of this awful and disgraceful period of our History?
Who's to say that someone, anyone, who did contributed to our proud rebellion against this bloody destructive political regime, would turn into the same spite and anger and lack of respect for a human being who really made its historical life by he's own means and self-construction?
I can only feel nauseated by this …
Please do not Delete Cláudio César Dias Baptista, without deleting also all about Tropicalismo, about my band Os Mutantes which he was part of, and the names of Caetano Veloso, Gilberto Gil and countless others...
Please let's be fair to who deserves its own accomplishments, please if you all, are going to delete him or he's work, please also delete all of us! For We are The Tropicalismo, We are the ones who did it all, and Claudio IS the fundamental corner stone of our history. – 189.46.183.107 (talk) 17:07, 14 June 2011 (UTC)Sérgio Dias Baptista.[reply]
Os Mutantes — 189.46.183.107 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Do not Delete When you delete, we are questioning the value of major literary work produced in Brazil, a big timeless lesson of astral projection, which proposes a reflection on the analogy of opposites that is one of the pillars of the new civilization that you want to colonize space.

Let us leave aside the medieval ages, forget the Victorian pomp and begin to open their eyes to new horizons beyond Tolkien. Much beyond that. (Rodrigo Pontes)

Oops! Sorry. Same reason as Fabiopa. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 17:49, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This page is about an author who fails general notability. A google search yields his personal home page, our wikipedia articles, refractions of these pages, his facebook page ect. The attempts to establish notability – an expired Audio Engineering Society card, links to other wikipedia pages and his personal homepage on "references", use of ip socks and potential meat puppeting – and the inappropriate aggression towards antiuser reflect this.Sean (talk) 18:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Do not delete. Mr. Seancasey seems to have read only the negative comments and not the positives. The author is notable, as it is more than proven by the comments of Professor Júlio Martins and several others. The accusations against the author on En Wiki are all false, he is not capable of criminal acts and vandalism. I'ma reader of your books and say that each and every one just made ​​me a great good. I am calm, I read all comments pros and cons and I remain confident in the good sense of Directors, which I hope will never erase the pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and GEA, which would be a slur to En Wiki and world literature. 187.14.114.249 (talk) 19:17, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.14.114.249 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Mr. Baptista is above all suspects. You who accuse him of pupperty and the persons who deleted his personal page insult him. He is renowned person, spotless, has been the example from which came the current great Audio engineers in Brazil and his books are remarkable, worth reading and having each of its En Wiki page. If the pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and Géa are not yet good for the the exegetes of the En Wiki taste, nothing better than to stop the discussion and improve these pages, not for the sake of the author, but for the good of the En Wiki and who were to read them. 187.13.27.91 (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC) — 187.13.27.91 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Listen, I'm not saying he doesn't meet the WP:N criteria, but parts of the article aren't in the right format, you have 2 dozen external links (many from just 1 website), and the article has content that is considered WP:SPAM. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 07:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Can people stop bullying antiuser and other users. They are just making a reasoned point about this article and nothing else. So please stop doing PA's against those users. I'm just trying to resolve this. Doh5678 (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment To users ANTIUSER, DOH5678, WEKN REVEN I SUSEJ EHT SEANCASEY00 and HRAFN
Your recent comments are showing some reasonable intention to solve the question. It's a great change since the begining. It's good. Thanks.
The proofs I've posted shows notabitity and are totally verifiable. Reading previous post, we can see that ANTIUSER have recognized, at least the relevance of Mr. Baptista's work for his page (not for Géa Page as he sad).
What I am asking you now is some patience and time, not too much time... I am trying to see the questions from you point of view. I have asked for a little help to colleagues from Library of Ufes, where I work (see my page). I am asking them to read the Mr. Baptista's page and all these comments from as neutral as possible point of view.
I Think that from this analysis we can find what we can do to ajust the page to WIKI. Some of them have already told me, in advance, that some things needs to be cleared indeed, tha some comments are fair, mainly the last ones from you...
According them there are much emotion and agressive attacks and from both sides to be honest. Please: is it possible to do this from a civilized way? I am trying to help. I will present here the result from this analysis and I propose myself to do changes and so you evaluate again.
Is it possible to do this? Please, assume prior that I (and others) have good faith, ok?
  • "is it possible to do this from a civilized way?" Given that Baptista's followers react with immoderate and irrelevant fury, any time anybody points out that it has not been demonstrated that Baptista "has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject", I would say most probably not. (Oh, and please do not post on my user talk to tell me that you've posted here -- it is neither necessary nor welcome.) HrafnTalkStalk(P) 19:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • " As the user DOH5678 sad, Calm down. Yes it is. But both sides have to act this way. They react (me included, but not with fury) this way because the attacks. Don't do the same saying "(...) [...] you've posted here -- it is neither necessary nor welcome." Don't you think that is another kind of fury (even lighter...). So... Both Parts. No fights more. No beligerancy, ok?Jcms1506br (talk) 20:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jcms1506br: please CEASE AND DESIST referring to comments questioning the notability of Baptista as "attacks". Describing them as such is a violation of WP:CIVIL & WP:AGF and are EXACTLY the sort of "immoderate and irrelevant fury" that I was referring to above. The one of the purposes of an AfD is to discuss (and therefore question) the notability of an article's topic. If you are so thin-skinned on the topic that you cannot bear to see such questions raised, then you should probably avoid this page -- the more so as you appear to have done NOTHING to present such "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" that might make your commentary RELEVANT. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 05:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment SEANCASEYOO
Mr Baptista is not working as electronic technician anymore, since the year of 2000 at least.. He is working as writer and author so it's natural the the AES member card has expired. So if the link redirects to its personal page, this an of correction that we can do as I talked above.Jcms1506br (talk) 18:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, you make a good point about his card.
This points to one of the problems here: he doesn’t seem to be notable as an author and this article is presenting him as one. Recent edits like Daniel’s have helped but the lead still reads “his main work is the book Géa” a self-published work which lacks WP:Notability and continues “Cláudio César Dias Baptista is best known as the writer of the opus "Géa" and other books”.
The COI problems at the Portuguese page and this don’t help either.Sean (talk) 20:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok Seancasey00
I will wait for the further analysis as I told. Meantime I will take note of every question pointed, OK? So please help Me and others on solving that discussion to put on progress my proposal.Jcms1506br (talk) 21:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok Seancasey00 - after visit the link you've added...
I understood the point. I don't have to agree with all of Mr. Baptista do or say. But...It seems to me that you read portuguese. So Check the Wiki-PT, please. Take a look what the user MACHO CARIOCA have posted. On two lines he offends three or four of wikipedia's Principles. Think by a point of view or Mr. Baptista. Think that you are him and are saying it's true. You can feel neutrality on that comment? Don't you think that this comment have same fury as HRAFN sad above? I hope so. MACHO CARIOCA do not know what he talking about. I've posted proofs. Three published articles that proves the opposite.Jcms1506br (talk) 21:27, 15 June 2011 (UTC)Jcms1506br (talk) 21:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Portuguese Wikipedia does not have the same rules and policies as English Wikipedia, so comparing policy discussions between projects doesn't really work. XXX antiuser eh? 06:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, Sean! I used google translate for your link and found this:

" MY OPINION ON THE ATTACK - YES, EVEN CONSIDER THAT AN ATTACK Someone who does not want to see the contents of my books benefit Brazil, the Portuguese-speaking countries and the world resolved to vote on the elimination of the article "Gea" in Wikipedia. Thus, even before the result of the vote from occurring, added to the article title is my name on the work the data "Gea" and also on the "Golden Guitar", another article about my works. Whatever the result will not be Google or Wikipedia to get me shut up and do not make the slightest question that eliminate whatever it is about me - just record the fact here so that people know how to be a writer in Brazil. - CCDB 6/10/2010 "

I highlighted in red the part that stuck out to me. Note: I'm not trying to make a point by quoting this guy; just helping you decide wether the article contains advertising or not. Maybe I'm wrong. I would like to believe the best, but it's difficult after reading that link.Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 12:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My duo quartuncia by citing one of the article deletion guidelines to help cool everything down: 'commenting on people rather than the article is considered disruptive.' There. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 12:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I bet I could edit the article to help move it towards WP standards. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 12:48, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@189.5.247.206: Please stop repeating "do not delete" in bold letters. I'm not vouching for its deletion; only wikification. I just edited the links. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 13:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry! I mistook your IP adress for someone else's. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 13:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


--- I consider the work of the CCDB very important. And all who know his work as a musician, sound engineer and writer, should have more respect for his work. It seems to me that this is a form of persecution for the CCDB work, promoted by the antiuser. I think you, Mr antiuser can better use of your time doing positive things, instead of trying to destroy the work of a person as CCDB. - Gil Evan - 06/16/2011---

Wait! Did you just refer to Claudio as her?
Now Claudio is a the? Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 14:33, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Dear Wekn reven: good day! I see that you are sincerely trying to 'wikify' the article Cláudio César Dias Baptista removing from there the links you consider invalid. But you let there only the links which relates that author to his past life as member of Os Mutantes group. I understand that your purpose is good, but the removing of some links to pages where Mr. Baptista is presented as an author will appear also as an attempt to minimize or hide that important part of his work. You removed those links perhaps to separate the pages Cláudio César Dias Baptista and the page Géa. As both are under discussion for deleting, if the article Géa is deleted there will be no external references in the page Cláudio César Dias Baptista to show his work as an author of that and other books. Please study again all the links (I see that you can read Portuguese from your other entries here) and insert again the ones you think valid to show his work as a writer, in the page entitled with his name. To help in that study, I am reproducing here the complete series of the links:
Well, it turns out Claudio's site has enough on the book anyways. The links that have been provided are identical to those from Géa.Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 15:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A note to the guy who claimed antiuser was 'masking' his being from Brazil w/an Italian flag: on his user page, he says "Hi, I'm antiuser, also known in the real world as Adriano. I'm a Brazilian-born Italian who lives in Seattle...". Please be kind to him in the future. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 15:09, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A note to the guy who claimed antiuser was 'masking' his being from Brazil w/an Italian flag: on his user page, he says "Hi, I'm antiuser, also known in the real world as Adriano. I'm a Brazilian-born Italian who lives in Seattle...". Please be kind to him in the future. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 15:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • We are in trouble with this Claudio Dias Baptista himself or his supporters in the articles about Os Mutantes members, see Rita Lee discussion and Arnaldo Dias Baptista. The editor wants "a place in the sun" in anyway... His article on Wiki-pt has the same problems and tags.. personal interest conflits, neutrality, controversy et all [1] MachoCarioca (talk) 15:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
External links

The link for "Revista Trip" opens a great reporting about the author as a writer, not only one of Os Mutantes- please read that reporting! The link to blog "Fudeus" shows the impression the journalist had about Mr. Baptista and is important. The link to "Viceland" shows a complete reporting about the author as a writer, not as one of Os Mutantes. And so on. Please visit al the pages from the links and reconsider. The complete absence of links about the work as a writer sounds strange to all people who saw the article with the links you removed. Thank you for anything you may do to preserve the real facts and the image of the author. 187.13.137.250 (talk) 14:54, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid some websites already covered everything but his authorship well enough for a person with Claudio's status. You're right, though, I think there should be something on Géa.Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 14:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind answer, Wenk Reven. Please insert in the article Cláudio César Dias Baptista the links which Professor Júlio Martins presented in the discussions of that article and in the page of discussion of Géa. Those links are very relevant, I think, to complete the image of Mr. Baptista and to create an more significant article for En Wiki. 187.13.137.250 (talk) 15:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where can I find the professor's links? Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 15:13, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much, Wekn reven. These are the professor links, which I copied from the code above (in the 'read' tab of this same page you will see the links better):
From Backstage magazine, Nº8 (1995) - The hidden face of Mutantes (original title in portuguese: A Face oculta dos Mutantes)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqZTQyMTdkZGYtOWYxMy00ZjQ2LWI5MzUtMGRiZjdiMGQwMjRm&hl=pt_BR
From Backstage magazine, Nº 27 (1997) - An audio Luthier ( Orig. title in portuguese: Um luthier de áudio)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNGZiYTkwYWMtNTQxYi00MGI5LTg5MDQtZmZlNzUxMGE4YmU4&hl=pt_BR
Música & tecnologia - ed. 28 [1991] - Cover history (Mr. Baptista appears with innovative 12 channel mixer with a size of a4 paper format totally conceived and designed in CADD).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNjM0YWEyMDQtNTVhOS00ODNhLWJkYzQtNjdiNDU1YzU2MzZj&hl=pt_BR
http://www.cpdee.ufmg.br/~semea/anais/artigos/JulioMartins1.pdf (see page 30).

and

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4Imqu0xjVLqNzUwZDhlYjQtZWEzZC00NDRjLTk3MTUtOTA4ZDJkNmUzOWE3&hl=pt_BR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.13.137.250 (talk) 16:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 187.13.137.250 (talk) 16:54, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very few of these links could be considered reliable third party references...links to Facebook, forums and blogs would not be suitable.TeapotgeorgeTalk 18:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I used google translate on the article's talkpage. Not too sure if CCDB himself is all that happy w/the article. If the user really is Cláudio. Several users and IP adresses have already made that claim. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 08:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, 187.13.137.250, but Teapot is right. Facebook and other social networking sites aren't considered suitable sources (apart from 1 or 2 very very very rare occasions. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 08:10, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
187.13.137.250 was another IPsock of Mr. Baptista's and has been blocked as such. XXX antiuser eh? 08:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Antiuser! I was wondering about that. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 08:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Dear Wekn, thank you for cleaning-up the article. Please inser the links in the article who present Mr. Baptista not only as a member of Os Mutantes, but also as a writer - the links are above. Please reconsider this deletion '09:11, 17 June 2011 Wekn reven i susej eht (talk | contribs) (7,670 bytes) (Advertisement deletion) (undo) '. The number of month/publications of Revista Nova Eletrônica - EDITELE cannot be an advertisement, because the Revista (Magazine) and the own EDITELE (publishing house) doesn't exist anymore: it existed during the decade 1977 to 1987. So, the mention of the numbers of exemplars has the only purpose to show the importance that magazine had in that time, never to work as an advertisement. You are trying to do justice, it's easy to see from your comments and acts; please honor that position and undo that deletion. Regards - - 187.13.59.122 (talk) 12:22, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
187.13.59.122: his website already says enough about that. Notice to all 187.13... IP adresses: please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. Thank you. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 12:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant, weak keep. Reluctant, because there is a blatant campaign of self-promotion going on here. On the article talk page, it is explained that Mr. Baptista did not himself write this article, but the complex explanation (where the article author edits from Mr Baptista's house, using his account) makes it clear that they are close. Whoever wrote it, the article was posted here by User:Ccdb, a SUL account (i.e., active on more than one Wikipedia) whose Portuguese user page makes clear that it is Mr. Baptista himself. Moreover, his website prominently displays links to the Wikipedia articles, and he has been trying to post articles in Citizendium about himself and his book. The flood of single-purpose accounts and IPs on the two AfDs is also an indication of an off-wiki campaign.
Also reluctant because of the behaviour of Mr Baptista's supporters on these two AfDs, including sockpuppetry, long irrelevant harangues, and personal attacks on those who disagree. User:Antiuser, who has taken part in the debates although he was not the nominator, has on his user page a list of twelve articles he has written: in the last few days every one of those articles was vandalised by Brazilian IPs in the 187.13 and 187.14 ranges. That kind of behaviour should not be tolerated, let alone rewarded.
All that makes me want to find a way to say delete, but I have to conclude that enough references have been produced, mainly those relating to Mr. Baptista's previous career as an inventor and musician, to make an article possible. The present version will need to be heavily edited, it should concentrate on those aspects of his career that are actually notable (inventions, Os Mutantes etc), and it will need to be watched to make sure that our conflict of interest policy is observed, and the page is not used by Mr. Baptista and his fans as a base for promoting himself, his "bio-relativity" theories or his book. JohnCD (talk) 13:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Gentlemen: People who know Mr. Baptista know he always avoided publicity, which is why they call him "The Hidden Mutante." The pages posted on his website about the Pt Wiki contains Screenshots of Pt Wiki pages "Cláudio César Dias Baptista" and "Géa" that were created by someone other than himself. Screenshots are irrefutable. These screenshots show that the pages have suffered vandalism, when someone interested in wrest them entered double letters in the names of links that rendered them useless and also demonstrate the process of deconstructing which the pages "Cláudio César Dias Baptista" and "Géa" suffered in the Pt Wiki. These processes culminated with the erasure of the page "Géa" in Wiki Pt and its substitution by the page "Gea" of an italian comic magazine with absolutely no expression (see, please, the visitation of that page). Mr. Baptista does what any self-respecting person would make: He exposes the attacks suffered and shows screenshots of the pages before and after these attacks. Yes, they are attacks and they are not a sincere desire to improve Pt Wiki pages. Who, unsuspecting, just skim over the pages of the site of Mr. Baptista (especially if you do not read well Portuguese) might think, '- What I see here are well-intentioned pages against the En Wiki'. But if you study in depth these pages you will see that it is a simple act of defending his good name and not an attempt at publicity. 187.13.59.122 (talk) 15:05, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"He exposes the attacks suffered and shows screenshots of the pages" - that right there is the problem. The user has article ownership issues and reacts to any edits as if it was censorship or an attack on his person. That's how this whole debacle got started, anyway. XXX antiuser eh? 18:25, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, even though Mr. Baptista says he's "internationally known as the hidden mutante", all references to that moniker on Google come from Baptista himself. XXX antiuser eh? 18:29, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note 187.13.59.122 was an IP sock of Mr. Baptista's and has been blocked (as was 187.13.119.213 and 187.13.46.232) -Sean (talk) 20:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Out of all the external links posted by Mr. Baptista above, and I've checked all of them, only a few meet WP:RS, and those give overwhelmingly more weight to his career as an inventor and engineer and his connection to Os Mutantes than his literary work. In fact, the majority of the references to his work as an author are taken from Baptista himself (in interviews or from his own website), and one of the links is an interview about his struggle in getting his books published. In my opinion, if the article is kept it needs a serious rewrite so as not to give undue weight to his recent work and focus on what he might be notable for. XXX antiuser eh? 20:29, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
AfDs aren't resolved by votes, but consensus. XXX antiuser eh? 21:30, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Removed the comment. Doh5678 (talk) 21:38, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Echoing my vote of delete above, this fails WP:MUS, WP:N. The arguments that "enough references have been produced" fail to convince me that this artist "has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself." Sean (talk) 23:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wouldn't he be known as the "Hidden Mutante" because all he did was make a guitar (that somehow managed to get an article written on it), do some sound effects, sing a few songs w/the Mutants, and write a long book which comes up only once when I google Géa? Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 10:43, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think most of them are Mr. Baptista himself. WP:DUCK and such. XXX antiuser eh? 11:48, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid so. Another update: his website now has a link to Géa on wikipedia, which doesn't exist anymore. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 15:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh well, this article's going to be deleted in a few hours. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 17:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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