Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/De Burgh family

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to House of Burke. Missvain (talk) 01:36, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

De Burgh family

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This is effectively a content fork with House of Burke, the latter claiming to portray the Irish branch of the de Burgh family, this page couched as focussing on the family as a whole yet providing no substantive information about any non-Irish-branch members. The only English member highlighted, Earl Hubert de Burgh, is described in the same minimal detail, simply naming him as brother of the Irish-branch founder, on both pages. Except for the family-specific heading, the De Burgh infobox was copied verbatim from House of Burke, as was the family tree. The only unique content on De Burgh are: a pair of unreferenced sentences of little encyclopedic value, one giving a highly-dubiously 'just-so story' of why the English family later dropped the 'de' to become simply Burgh (but this a reference to an Irish-branch), the other making vague mention of unnamed prominent members fighting in a list of wars; and an unreferenced 'Coat of arms' section giving some equally problematic legends and stories about the the origin of the coat of arms (attributed to a period before Europeans used coats of arms) and motto of the Irish branch. While the de Burgh page could be rewritten to focus exclusively on the non-Irish branch, that lasted for only two generations in the 13th century and could be covered in about 3 sentences, so this page would never have sufficient unique information to justify dealing with the branches separately. I propose a minimal Merge to House of Burke. Agricolae (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge I've tried to add to both House of Burke and de Burgh family pages and ended-up duplicating the same info. I agree with a merge so long as no information is lost.

The dynasty/family was originally called de Burgh (descended from William de Burgh d.1204) then the Irish language version of the name became 'Burke' later so if there is a merger then we need to include everyone (English/Irish) on one page so should the single page really be called 'House of de Burgh' (original name and later Clanricarde name) rather than House of Burke (later Irish name)? WilldeBurgh (talk) 08:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge (leaving redirect). We normally have an article on each noble title in GB and Ireland. In this case there are multiple titles, so that an article is appropriate, butwe have it already at House of Burke. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Another editor has now copy/pasted the entire 'Coat of arms and motto' section from De Burgh family to House of Burke. There is no longer a single thing of value on De Burgh that isn't already on Burke. As such, the original proposal of a minimal merge really should now be a null merge (i.e. simple conversion to a Redirect, but described on the Talk pages as a merge to preserve the chain of authorship and history for the material already moved). Agricolae (talk) 16:02, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.