Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dong Jin Kim

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I'm not sure that the notability concerns have been adequately met but since Jigo Tensin-Ryu Jujutsu has recently been merged into this page I don't want to delete it without an updated discussion. As such, if anyone feels that the subject is still not notable I have no issues with it being re-nominated. J04n(talk page) 14:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dong Jin Kim

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Doesn't seem to meet any notability criteria. Almost all of sources are to his biography on his school's web site. As for claims of notability, teaching classes is not notable. Many instructors teach police and military. I don't think his kendo championship is enough to show notability on its own. Winning one national tournament for 50+ year olds doesn't seem enough to me, but others may disagree.Mdtemp (talk) 20:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. czar · · 21:59, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This individual created a martial art that is used at the National Defense University and being taught to the U.S. Military there. It is part of the curriculum. He is not listed here because he "he teaches classes." He is listed because he has a National Championship. Kim has only been in the United States as a U.S. Citizen for a few years and his "50 years" should not be taken into consideration. Mdtemp, I know you are a MMA fan but Kendo is important to a lot of people. His winning a National Champion ship, plus the fact he founded a martial arts style is why he is here. Subsequently, the style, Jigo-Tensin-Ryu Jujutsu also has an article. 69.243.110.100 (talk) 12:38, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Although I study a different school of Kendo, Kim is considered one of the top practitioners and teachers of the sport here in the U.S. I would rather promote my school, but having this on here is good for the sport, especially here in the U.S. There are very few, if not any, practioners at his level here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.107.123 (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As an encyclopedia, it's irrelevant whether or not an article is "good for the sport". I still don't think he quite meets the notability criteria, but he's much closer than his martial art.Mdtemp (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I argree you Mdtem. Please allow my to rephrase my comment as I think I misspoke. I believe he is of importance to the sport of kendo and therefore should be included as an article.MartialArtsLEO (talk) 22:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very weak Keep Technically, winning a U.S. championship (especially an age related one) may not strictly meet WP:MANOTE, but I can live with that. However, combined with the lack of independent sources this article does have some issues. I'd prefer to see some additional sources, but I don't really feel strongly about the article either way. Astudent0 (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Astudent0, I see your point. His students are some of my biggest competitors so I dont want to sound too supportive....lol Maybe Emery can find some more sources for his Kim article. As i said its good for the sport here in the US.

Delete I don't believe that being the winner of a senior's championship fulfills WP:MANOTE. I am unable to find ~~much, if any,~~ significant coverage on the subject thus appears to fail WP:GNG. --TreyGeek (talk) 03:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: I went through the article and cleaned it up. A number of images uploaded to commons appears to be possible copyright violations from the subject's dojo's(?) website (or at the very least were given inaccurate attribution. So, I removed them and tagged them appropriately on Commons). It also seems a lot of the citations given to paragraphs didn't actually have the information being cited as far as I could tell, so those were removed. --TreyGeek (talk)

still keepTreygeek thank you for helping clean up, however being at NDU those are my images. Also its a National Championship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emery80 (talk • contribs) 11:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
~~merge I merged this page into Jigo Tensin Ryu~~.
Keep As per the discussion in Jigo tensin Ryu, Jigo Tensin Ryu should be merged into this article and this article kept.Emery80 (talk) 22:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Emery80 (talk) 13:50, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment My related comments on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jigo Tensin-Ryu Jujutsu suggest the opposite merge since it appears the man is more significant than the martial art.Peter Rehse (talk) 14:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Peter, thanks, I will work with it later today. Emery80 (talk) 14:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Emery, no disrespect, but I agree with Peter Rehse. Merge Jigo Tensin Ryu into Don Jin Kim. The man is more important than the art in terms of wiki. Kim is is one of the top kendōka in terms of his experience and training in the United States where as the martial art is still developing. Not to say it wont get there, but its not "there" yet for the level needed for these articles. As stated already by a few, I would suggest merging Jigo Tensin Ryu into DJK, putting JTR as a section and redirecting JTR to the DJK page. I also agree that the DJK page should be keep. I was not signed in when I made previos comments, but mine are unsigned under 69.243.107.123.

MartialArtsLEO (talk) 17:06, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Emery, I also just cleaned up another article you worked on recently that is unrelated. Not picking on you, just went to your edit history and noticed something that needed some clean up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartialArtsLEO (talk • contribs) 17:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No offense take, thank you for your help. I will take all that into consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emery80 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Emery80, I would also suggest you not accuse people of vandalism and ask they be banned from Wikipedia, as you did with me, unless you have evidence besides the fact they disagree with you.Mdtemp (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mdtemp, please accept my apologies on that. I am new to this and didn't under stand what was going on. I appreciate your patience.Emery80 (talk) 20:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As soon as the AFD is complete I will start the merge process of Jigo Tenin Ryu into this articleEmery80 (talk) 13:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I merged the Jigo Tensin Ryu article into this one as per the AfD on that article.Peter Rehse (talk) 15:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Look good, thanks PeterEmery80 (talk) 19:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.