Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EarthKosher Kosher Certification

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (WP:NPASR). (Non-administrator closure) NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

EarthKosher Kosher Certification

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Apparently written as an advertisement, this article has no sources not affiliated with the subject, nor could I find any.

From the little I could find (on un-Reliable sites), it seems that it is a rather minor kosher certification (there are more than a thousand) whose only claim to notability may be its association with its possibly notable co-founder, Rabbi Zushe Blech; but notability is not inherited. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 05:33, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 05:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 05:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 05:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 05:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Note that the original username of the article's creator is that of a company providing "internet consulting services", whose clients, according to their website, include EarthKosher. An obvious connection can be found to the only other page edited by this user, Diamond Sutra. 05:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Comment: There is a Category:Kosher food certification organizations (18 such agencies are already listed in it) for these type of organizations, but what is lacking is a main article for this subject! So while this particular organization may not be that notable, however as even the nominator admits when he states that "there are more than a thousand" such organizations which means that while individually they may not all be worthy of WP articles, however, collectively they amount to a very important sector of Jewish religious life that not just Orthodox Jews rely upon but even many of the less religious who have a cultural and bond to observing some level of "kosher" as well as in many instances when Muslims cannot get access to Halaal foods they will turn to find food that is certified by a reliable Jewish kashrut agency such as the one in this article, see Kashrut#Supervision and marketing. These kashrut supervisory agencies that are run and manned by knowledgeable rabbis and mashgichim ("supervisors") after suitable inspections that meet with sufficient requirements of Jewish law then issue a hechsher ("certificate" or "authorization") that food products are reliably "kosher". Therefore it would seem correct that WP should have an article devoted to Kosher food certification organizations that can then have sub-sections for some lesser-well-known agencies perhaps. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 10:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, after cutting down to a few sentences, and Redirect to Kosher certification organizations, making it general enough because such agencies do not only supervise food alone. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 10:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that every certification, even if not individually notable, should be merged to/mentioned in its "parent article". (Incidentally, the primary subject, which, as your wrote, is clearly notable, already has an article: Hechsher, which you linked to. How are the certifying organizations distinct from the actual certifications? Kosher certification organizations and the like should redirect to Hechsher.)

Redirecting does not seem advisable either. Non-notable soda manufacturers do not redirect to List of soft drink producers, do they?

Finally, in this case I could not find any verifiable information about this kashrut agency at all (this is typical of smaller hechsherim), so there is no cause to merge or redirect whatsoever.

הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 21:33, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hasirpad: Thank you for your input, but I beg to disagree with you, for some of the following reasons:

You are now introducing an "apples and oranges" argument because, as you well know, the role of a kosher supervision agency is part and parcel of Jewish religious life, especially in these modern times when housewives do not kasher their own chickens etc or when people rely on a kashrut agency to guaranty the kashrut of tzitzis (people don't twine their own anymore), Sukkos (for s'chach), clothes (for shatnez), and now even for smart phones and devices (to monitor hookups to the Internet) etc with many more like this!
Additionally you admit that "there are more than a thousand" such kashrut agencies that merely explaining what a "Hechsher" is does not help.
To give an analogy that you may appreciate, just because there is an article about Medicine does not mean there cannot be an article about Physicians and just because there is an article about Physicians does not mean there cannot be articles about sub-specialties such as Surgeons or Psychiatrists etc.
Thus, while the notion of Hechsher is at the core of "hashgacha" but related to that is the role of Organizations and Agencies and religious bodies, including the business aspect of running such modern-day complex institutions that require and involve expertise in and of a cross between Jewish law, qualifications and educational background of rabbis and their Orthodox Judaism affiliations, knowledge of business, food manufacturing, food distribution, advertising, and many other such aspects that all kashrut supervision organizations have to know and deal with, be they large or small, so that an article about Kosher certification organizations on this subject is not just important but long overdue. Thanks a lot for caring, IZAK (talk) 10:51, 30 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:36, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 14:42, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Week keep Even though this article needs some work (update: now done), including foremost the addition of at least some basic sources, the organization seems to be widespread enough to be notable. Although the lack of online sources about this organization does have me worried a little. Debresser (talk) 14:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You may have fixed the tone, but there is still no evidence that any reliable sources have significant coverage of this hechser. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 17:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.