Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Economic history of the Arab world

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The reason given for deletion was unattributed copy-pasting, but this allegation has been withdrawn. Sandstein 06:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Economic history of the Arab world

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Okay, this is complicated. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Economic_history_of_the_Muslims was created as a copy-paste job from various articles; mainly Islamic banking, Islam and slavery and Arab slave trade. It had no new content, as far as I'm aware, instead being mostly taken from Islamic banking as well as a few other articles. This is some sections from that. Unfortunately, as a cut-and-paste job of a more complicated cut-and-paste job, if left to stand, it may well violate the Creative Commons license, by permanently muddying the credit. Islamic economics in the world is the pre-existing article. I, of course, have no objection to expanding that article with content from the original articles, if documented, but I don't think we can muddy the attribution as much as this article does currently.

However, the point isn't to stop work, so other solutions, such as deleting the content, but leaving the headers, and re-summarising from the linked sub articles could also work, and this should probably be closed if it is. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 09:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cuerden writes in error. The material Cuerden describes has been removed. The material now in the article was mostly created by me for this article. Additions by Editor:Tijfo098 I freely acknowledge that it is no more than a start on an article about a notable topic. But it not a bad start and the topic is notable.I.Casaubon (talk) 20:10, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If that's correct, I withdraw my request. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 15:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article appears written in good faith. However it has major gaps in coverage. I added the empty sections by just scanning for (top-level) section titles in the first ref in "Further reading" to give the editors an idea what this should cover, and to prevent the reader from coming to the conclusion that this some hack job attempting to denigrate a large part of the world. There are some NPOV problems with the organization of the sections that have text. While topics based on Islamic law institutions cover a wide time span, and some have relevance today, others have only limited time and geographic relevance, e.g. slavery and to lesser extent oil too, so they should be presented as such. Perhaps userfy; the article has very marginal quality for mainspace. Tijfo098 (talk) 10:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree it's potentially a valid offshoot, but the potential copyright issues worry me. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 12:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The topic is notable and the article is a long overdue companion to Economic history of Europe, Economic history of Africa, Economic history of Britain, Economic history of France, etc. The article on Economic history of Germany is a particularly good model. The since unified German state is not much more than a century old, and the article does a reasonably good job of covering such topics as guilds, the rural economy and peasants, and the development of towns that were similar across the German world, just as many economic institutions have been similar across the Arab world. And with scholars like Timur Kuran coming out with new analysis of the Arab Economy as an entity [The Long Divergence (Princeton University Press, 2011)] appropriate for analysis on a region-wide basis, I truly fail to understand the arguments for deletion. Just hang a needs improvement tag on it. it does need that. And attention form an expert on the economic history of the region.I.Casaubon (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Nobody said the topic is not notable. The concerns are about the content of the Wikipedia article with this title. Tijfo098 (talk) 20:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I am primarily concerned with the copyright status - after as many cut-and-pastes as it went through, particularly with one link in the chain likely to be deleted, there's a good chance this violates the Creative Commons licence. If the attribution status is carefully fixed, it may be salvagable, but it's borderline copyvio as it is now, and copyvio cannot be left on Wikipedia indefinitely. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 21:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (without prejudice to re-creation by an expert on the subject) Another sloppy copy-and-paste job, reusing material from elsewhere on Wikipedia with no regard to copyright. Now Economic history of the Jews is deleted, can we have a moratorium on the creation of such content forks? Or at least if editors insist on creating them, can they do it in their own user space first, using their own words and research. (NB The history of the Arab world, including its economic side, began long before the coming of Islam, see for example Himyarite Kingdom, Petra etc.). --Folantin (talk) 12:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Can you please explain why we might not assume, for the purposes of determining whether an article subject is worthy of inclusion on Wikipedia, that "material from elsewhere on Wikipedia" (article content) conforms to copyright laws? If you have any examples of copyvio, you should include them. On the talk page. The alarum has been raised, and yet this invasion by a single red herring seems strangely anti-climactic. Anarchangel (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sloppy, false assertions Here is the history of this article. I stumbled upon Economic history of the Muslims. It was a paltry article (there are lots) so I added sections on Jizya, Waqf, Piracy and Raiding on March 31. On April 3, in the course of participating in the Articles for deletion/Economic history of the Muslims I created Economic history of the Arab world because it is a notable topic in its own right. The Arab world, after all, is not all of Islam, and there are parallel articles, which I detail above on this page. The content of those sections was written by me based on the sources cited. Others have since expanded the article, which needs work, but which is a valid article on a notable topic.I.Casaubon (talk) 16:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.