Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Georgi Adamia (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Stifle (talk) 13:49, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Georgi Adamia

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The last afd failed to reach consensus, I think largely due to assumptions of bad faith by several editors. Given that six other afd's on similar footballers just resulted in deletions without objection, I have every reason to believe consensus is now possible. (see Emin Amiraslanov, Amil Agajanov, Samir Abdulov, Asif Abbasov, Orkhan Mirzaev, and Javad Mirzaev (2nd nomination)). In any case, the underlying notability problems remain. He has not played in a league confirmed to be fully professional or for his country's national team, nor has he received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:36, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:37, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. ^{B </sup8>E _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S} 21:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 21:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 21:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 21:47, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plays in a top division and sounds like he is a prolific striker. Has played in Cup competition that asserts more notability. There are sources available. GNG seems like less of a problem than FOOTY and footy doesn't mean much if it is just a tool to limit articles.Cptnono (talk) 08:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 08:41, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:GNG the player was the top scorer in the Azerbaijan Premier League in 2010-2011 season and top scorer in the Commonwealth of Independent States Cup in 2005 an annual regional football tournament, recognized by FIFA and was part of the winning team in 2006 further per Nfitz in the Previous AFD he has multiple European appearance and being the top scorer in the top league in a country where football is the top sport .Further even UEFA in its season review notes his record.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Player fails WP:NFOOTY as has not played in a fully professional league, nor senior international football. No indication of any other achievements that have garnered sufficient, significant coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. The CIS cup is a minor competition and it's geographically restricted nature means that winning or being top scorer is nothing of particular note. His European appearances are almost entirely non notable, no club he has ever played for has made anything other than the most cursory impact on the continental scene. Additionally being top scorer in a league ranked relatively lowly on a continental scale does not inherently confer notability. Fenix down (talk) 15:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The notability threshold of WP:NFOOTY is a very generous one as it is - more generous by far than some other sports' criteria - and the player still doesn't pass it. Egsan Bacon (talk) 16:03, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Will pass WP:GNG.The Player played several appearances in matches against Borussia Dortmund here and here and other leading clubs in Europe. Another Editor had stated Previous AFD here it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of Bias . As there little access to local Azerbaijani and Georgian media as he is one of there all time leading players in the league and football is the number one sport there . Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And the assumptions of bad faith begin anew... This is not North Korea or Somalia we're talking about. Internet access is readily available in Georgia and Azerbaijan, and the local press take full advantage of it. And yet, through two afd's now, no one has provided any evidence that he has received significant coverage from them, or anywhere else for that matter, without which this article fails both relevant notability guidelines. Sir Sputnik (talk) 18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I quite agree. A group of editors inability to read a given language does not mean notability should be assumed and it certainly isn't biased by default. Fenix down (talk) 20:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if it appeared otherwise and is a General statement was only pointing that league season's top scorer and most capped foreign player as per this and League's top scorer and the Top scorer in Commonwealth of Independent States Cup are from foreign sources nothing from Azeri or Georgian sources even in other articles from many countries one does not find local sources in non English languages that is all pointed out raised by another editor in the Previous AFD . Football is the National sport in these countries would expect that League's top scorer and one of the all time leading players would be notable if you one had greater access to local language sources and raised this because he is not just another player playing the in there league but one of there all time best players.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's one routine stats site, one two paragraph article on the player and one season summary for the country that mentions him in a couple of sentences. Where is GNG in that? Fenix down (talk) 03:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks .Here are some this ,this this and this among others in Georgian language.Anyway will leave it to the closer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So what do they say and how have you assured yourself that the sources are reliable since there are only two sites mentioned? Fenix down (talk) 07:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Per this ყოველდღიური სპორტული გაზეთი "ლელო" that is attributing this to Lelo .These are from Lelo Georgia's oldest sports newspaper [1] , [2][3] and [4] while this [5] is attributed to Azeri Sport.There are not routine coverage and are articles about him with his photograph in all articles.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And like I said, what do they say? How do I know they aren't just routine match reports. I note nothing has been added to the article or using them. I'm not saying you haven't found significant coverage but you need to be able to articulate what the sources say. Fenix down (talk) 16:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The first URL appears to be a post-match interview, thus WP:ROUTINE; the second URL became malformed when posted, thus I cannot see what it says; the third URL appears to be a piece about Adamia maybe signing with a club, thus WP:ROUTINE; and the fourth URL appears to be a brief post-trade interview, thus WP:ROUTINE. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 01:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

დაბრუნება ცხრა წლის შემდეგ... გიორგი ადამია "ზესტაფონში" მივიდა This is about return to Georgia Football after Nine years after the return of man ... "Zestafoni" came and his success in Azerbaijan and about good players returning to Georgia.Gogole Translation
გიორგი ადამია: საქართველო და აზერბაიჯანი ევრო 2020-ს უმაღლეს დონეზე ჩაატარებენ George Adamia: Georgia and Azerbaijan's Euro 2020 will deliver the highest level. A general interview in which speaks Football including the Joint bid by Azerbaijan and Georgia for the 2020 Euro bid.[6] Google translation
დაბრუნება ცხრა წლის შემდეგ... გიორგი ადამია "ზესტაფონში" მივიდა George Adamia: "Inter" really liked .Adamia says joined Inter Baku as he liked them as a free agent.Google translation
4th one Google translation

Sorry for my delay in replying.None of them is strictly WP:routine I have added translation as requested and I have not included any post match interview and one is allowed to use foreign language sources and all of them are about him with his photograph in them .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:55, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Has not played in a WP:FPL (what constitutes an FPL is a subject for discussion here) and does not appear to have played in a FIFA tier-1 match. All coverage listed is either statistical or otherwise WP:ROUTINE, thus WP:GNG is also failed. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 01:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep With 7 Champions League appearances and 22 Europa League appearances over the last decade, and being the top goalscorer in the top league in a country where football is the top sport, it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of WP:BIAS. Nfitz (talk) 15:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In addition to him being a profilic scorer and his records This from Lelo Gogole Translation and this Google translation will take will them past minimum WP:GNG and this is clearly not WP:routine and can be verified with the translation .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:29, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep agree with reasons outlined by Nfitz. Hmlarson (talk) 21:11, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Can't help but notice that Boguslavmandzyuk has not participated in this discussion. --Mr. Guye (talk) 04:07, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mr. Guye (talk) 04:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep National player is good enough for me. A national cap in soccer should meet WP:ANYBIO. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC).

It is, except he has never played for the Georgian national team. Sir Sputnik (talk) 04:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. There is no reason than WP:IDONTLIKEIT to delete this article. The Azerbaijan league is a fully professional league. You have NO evidence that he hasn't played in a fully professional league. Your examples of Emin Amiraslanov, Amil Agajanov, Samir Abdulov etc are also meaningless because Wikipedia works on a case-by-case basis. All you have demonstrated is that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Finally, your claim that he hasn't "received significant coverage" is called we call WP:BIAS on wikipedia. Perhaps YOU haven't read any articles about him in YOUR language. This doesn't mean he hasn't received coverage in other languages, as is witnessed by a full "references" section. This is irrespective of your personal opinions of whether the media in another country is less important than the media in your own country and it is NOT your decision to make the call that this player hasn't received coverage based on an English language google search.

As for Sir Sputnik's behavior, I can't believe that, as the creator of this page, I wasn't notified of this discussion on my talk page. The statement "I have every reason to believe consensus is now possible" is also very telling. Your definition of "consensus" seems to mean your point of view, regardless of the views of the rest of the community. It is very difficult to assume good faith when this discussion is sneaked by like this.--Bogu Slav 06:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep GNG is met. Potential professional league (well, likely but FOOTY can be weird). The regional Cup play does it for me. This subject could be a great article and shouldn't be deleted just because some players in a similar spot don't meet the criteria. National bias, much? (not in a poopey nationalistic sense but in non English speaking nations sort of way if that makes any sense)Cptnono (talk) 02:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Azerbaijan league IS FULLY PROFESSIONAL!

This article states that the salaries of players in the league range from $5,000 to $66,000 a month. Another article states that the top 3 clubs in Azerbaijan have a yearly budget of more than $10 million. It also states that the highest paid players get around 600 euro a year. Another article says that professional players in the Azerbaijan league get salaries that are many times higher than those of the average Azerbaijani. These are just the first three articles I came across. I could very easily find a lot more. I'm waiting for the WP:BIASed editors to now tell me that this is not enough evidence because it is not in the Anglophone media or something to that effect.--Bogu Slav 07:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The correct place to discuss whether the Azerbaijan League is fully professional is at WT:FPL. That said, I would be willing to recommend that this AfD be placed on hold pending discussion there. If consensus there is that the league is fully professional, then Adamia meets WP:NFOOTY and the article can be kept and improved. If not, then he doesn't and the article can be deleted. It seems obvious to me that this AfD is not going to reach any particular consensus until then. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 08:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The professionality of Azerbaijani football can be discussed at WP:FPL, but there's no reason the discussion can't also take place here. We've certainly concluded a league is fully professional in a AFD before without any discussion at WP:FPL. Nfitz (talk) 03:29, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And by "consensus" you mean that you hope more people will come around to your point of view to delete the article. You have also not responded at all to the points I have brought up. And we can discuss this issue anywhere it's necessary. Per Wikipedia:WikiProject, "WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors ". I do not need to ask for the approval of WikiProject Football regarding every football-related topic. A WikiProject is simply a group of editors focusing on a specific topic. However, even if we do go by the recommendations of WP:FOOTY, Giorgi Adamia is still notable because he does play in a fully professional league. --Bogu Slav 02:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The argument of User:Boguslavmandzyuk is compelling. A source indicating the league minimum salary (at least of the top 18 players) would be useful. Nfitz (talk) 15:10, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.