Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Green sauce

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) BenKuykendall (talk) 07:08, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Green sauce

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Individually, there are many notable green sauces; however, I do not think the topic of green sauces is notable per the criteria of WP:GNG and WP:LISTN. This article is currently unsourced, and consists purely of original research; the "history" section in particular appears to be speculative. I did find a few possible discussions of green sauces (1 2) but they do not strike me as reliable enough sources to imply notability. BenKuykendall (talk) 21:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by nominator per sources found below. The article still needs work, but at this point it is clear that WP:GNG is met. BenKuykendall (talk) 18:42, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. BenKuykendall (talk) 21:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:14, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:14, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article has been around over a decade, and there is indeed a coherent subject here, the green herb sauces. The German-leaning history section is very inadequate - this was huge as a basic sauce in medieval cooking, especially served with fish. Of course recipes are few and far between. Obviously references needed - searching for cookery refs is a nightmare as all you get is recipes. Note that none of the European sauces have articles, I was rather shocked to see: the Spanish and Italian salsa verde, the French sauce verte - the former goes to the Mexican one (it should be a disam) and I'll redirect the French one (currently a redlink) now. So this is all we have on this major sauce family, and it should be kept and improved. I think a firmer distinction should be made with the South American ones, and British mint sauce. Medieval refs, all to books: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], Johnbod (talk) 22:08, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep Though I certainly agree that the current article needs work, it is the only article right now on the Italian salsa verde, which is unquestionably as notable as the Mexican salsa verde, which has its own article (because it is made of tomatillos, not herbs). The Italian salsa verde is important in Lombardy, Piedmont, and Tuscany. I've added a few refs. The French Renaissance sauce is probably the same thing in some real sense, though the modern mayonnaise-based version isn't. I agree, too, that additional research is needed to determine whether the German green sauce is related to the Italian one, but simply on the basis of generic similarity, it seems to belong together with the Italian one, at least until the article becomes too big -- which it certainly isn't yet. There is an important historical tradition of green sauces. Taillevent, for example, discusses green sauces.

PS, I would guess that in fact the various European green sauces do have a common origin, but we'll need to find some sources for that. --Macrakis (talk) 22:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Green sauces are treated together in reliable sources. Without much effort, I found, for example, Susan Volland's Mastering Sauces: The Home Cook's Guide to New Techniques for Fresh Flavors, W.W. Norton, 2015, which has an entire section on green sauces. James Peterson's comprehensive Sauces: Classical and Contemporary Sauce Making (multiple editions) talks about green sauces, including the English green sauces which are the ancestor's of today's mint sauce.

Wikipedia policy is not to delete articles which are incomplete, but to improve them. This article unquestionably needs improvement, but certainly not deletion! --Macrakis (talk) 22:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PPS The Oxford Companion to Food has an article on greensauce (ref added to article; also an OED ref), and gives the German Grüne Sosse as "an example of what is essentially the same thing in other cuisines". I hope that's definitive as to the notability of green sauce as a category. --Macrakis (talk) 23:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It's obviously a broad topic and that's fine. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, of course, the article can be improved but the topic is relevant.--Pampuco (talk) 19:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the withdrawal! I'll copy this useful discussion to the article talk, for future reference. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.