Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gretl Braun

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep for Gretl Braun and no consensus for Ilse Braun with leave to speedy renominate the latter. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gretl Braun

This person is the sister of Eva Braun, but really doesn't seem to have done anything else to confer any kind of independent notability; and there doesn't seem to be any reliable source coverage outside of brief mentions in works about her sister or about Hitler. ~ mazca ^talk 07:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Also nominating her other sister, Ilse Braun for the same reason. ~ mazca ^talk 08:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No notable in own right, notability not inherited from family member per Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Family and WP:NOTINHERITED. WWGB (talk) 07:58, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WWGB. Niteshift36 (talk) 08:13, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete neither encyclopedically notable, Ilse unsourced. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-04t09:35z, -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-05t11:00z
Keep Article now expanded with references, as a member of Hitler's inner circle at the Berghof I think she is notable enough to stay in. -- Sealman (talk), 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Is her membership in the "inner circle" based on being related to someone or because she actually performed a function? Niteshift36 (talk) 01:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is probable her membership was due to her sister’s relationship with someone, but she is also notable for then appearing in many of the home movies and photographs of her photographer sister which have frequently been included in documentary films and published works.Sealman (talk) 23.20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Keep, not notable because of her temporary relationship, but notable per Sealman's references: note that, despite their similar names, the books are all different. Nyttend (talk) 23:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't doubt that she's mentioned in those references, but I really can't see any evidence she's done anything remotely notable outside of her relationship to Eva. We tend not to have independent articles about famous peoples' relatives, even though they're probably mentioned in biographies of that person - they haven't done anything notable themselves. I have yet to see any reason this is an exception. ~ mazca ^talk 19:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nja²⁴⁷ 08:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep I am finding very substantial coverage in a Google books search: this book [1] is written primarily about Eva, but also mentions Gretl in highly substantive ways, providing historical context, biographical info...the whole search in all books can be found here: [2]. This seems very solid to me, between these sources the article could be tightly sourced and actually probably expanded somewhat. Cazort (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Cazort. Gosox5555 (talk) 02:33, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Gretl Braun, delete Ilse Braun - the former does seem notable as a member of Hitler's inner circle, with multiple references to addirm to this; the latter has no claim to fame other than being the sister of Eva Braun, and notability is not inherited. Giant Snowman 13:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This point should be emphasised - when I nominated these articles, both were in the same state and had the same problems. Improvements have been made to Gretl; but Ilse remains just as unsourced and non-notable. The same decision may not apply to both, and I'd encourage any participants and the closing admin to review this. I'm slightly regretting the batch-nomination now, though at the time there was nothing to separate them. ~ mazca ^talk 14:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced Ilse Braun isn't notable, although admittedly a similar book search [3] shows fewer hits and substantially less detailed coverage. But that's another discussion! Cazort (talk) 18:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Gretl based on the sources found. Merge Ilse to Eva Braun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edward321 (talk • contribs)

I think merging/redirecting Isle into this page is a good idea for now. Cazort (talk) 18:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep, she is clearly an historical personage, and in my opinion entries on such people are one of Wiki's strong suits: Wiki is not like other encyclopedias that are limited by pages of paper and book covers. Wiki can seek a degree of granularity that is unprecedented, and it should do so, in my opinion. This entry is a prime example. As for her sister, Ilse, her entry may simply require some research and editing. Estéban (talk) 10:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.