Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Botswana

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. No support for deletion, and no consensus for a merger, leaving us with a Keep. Owen× ☎ 23:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Jews in Botswana

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Extremely small minority with little significance, nearly half the article is about Botswana's relations with Israel because of how little coverage there is of the 21 members of this community. If this qualifies as notable you could make thousands of X ethnicity in Y country articles. Gazingo (talk) 15:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 13. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 15:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Judaism, and Botswana. Shellwood (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There could be 10 people or 5 people in this community and it wouldn't matter as long as reliable sources existed. The current size of the community is irrelevant. Jewish communities are almost always small in most countries. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 12:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only sources in the article are Jewish websites with articles for "Jews in X country" for every country. Are there any sources about Botswana Jews specifically outside of the context of listing facts about the Jewish communities in every country? Gazingo (talk) 15:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gazingo: You make no sense, of course it would be mostly Jewish web sources that refer to Jewish history articles. Would you also cancel out Jewish books and journals if they were cited? The Jewish or non-Jewish origins or nature of the sources cited make no difference as long as they are WP:RS and WP:V. Would you say what you said to editors of articles about Muslims or Christians on WP that the sources they cite are "too Muslim" or "too Christian"? Obviously not, so why are you doing so here? IZAK (talk) 18:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There's a notable incident that isn't currently covered that seems worthwhile on my WP:BEFORE search.^[1] Andre🚐 23:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Makgala, Christian John (2006). "Bid to Settle Jewish Refugees from Nazi-Germany in Botswana, 1938-1939". Botswana Notes and Records. 38: 20–32. ISSN 0525-5090.

- Even though that's one source, note there's also a JTA article in the article. Andre🚐 01:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Is Andre's source enough to keep this? Are there more?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Religion in Botswana#Judaism is a potential merge target if consensus is against retaining this article as is. Left guide (talk) 08:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Bohemian Baltimore. Eladkarmel (talk) 19:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Religion in Botswana#Judaism - This is a very, very slim WP:GNG pass, on the basis of the Botswana Notes and Records and Jewish Telegraphic Agency articles. As an editorial matter, this content would be better covered at Religion in Botswana#Judaism, where it functionally is covered already. Suriname0 (talk) 19:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I looked at the newer sources provided by IZAK, and my opinion remains unchanged. Not seeing the depth of coverage required to support an independent article, although I have no WP:V concerns based on the few-sentence descriptions available in the uncovered sources. Suriname0 (talk) 15:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Suriname0: The big problem with your suggestion is that not all Jews are connected to Judaism, in fact the majority of Jews in modern times have become secular, even atheistic, and have few or no connections to the religion of Judaism as such. Therefore placing historical information about Jews who are mostly not religious in a sub-section of "Judaism" in Botswana would be misleading, illogical, inappropriate, false, untrue and incorrect. That is why the naming of the series of the articles "History of the Jews in ____" on WP was created decades ago so that the article/s could include both secular and religious aspects of Jews in those countries. IZAK (talk) 18:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a fair point. Given that, Religion in Botswana#Judaism needs to be completely rewritten; it exclusively focuses on the history of Jews in Botswana, not the history of Judaism. Perhaps that content should be moved to Ethnic groups in Botswana. I suspect that similar trends exist in other country articles where Judaism is discussed. Suriname0 (talk) 18:39, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I started reviewing the article to identify where sources are needed or missing. With some reorganisation, I believe this article does not warrant deletion. LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 00:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 22:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to the religion in Botswana/Judaism section as suggested above seems like a fine idea. This isn't a terribly notable community otherwise, as far as Wikipedia notability goes. Oaktree b (talk) 23:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Oaktree b: There is no such WP standard of requiring "community" because if an article has WP:RS and its WP:V then its WP:N and it hence stays on WP. In addition Jewish communities are often very small, but that does not make them insignificant. Kindly note there are only about 15 million Jews in the world versus about 7 billion non-Jews! So when dealing with the subject of Jews in countries their numbers will always be relatively much smaller compared to the general population/s. 03:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
Keep because there are enough WP:RS and it's WP:V. IZAK (talk) 01:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE: I have significantly upgraded the article with additional information, new sections, and citations. Please take a look. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 03:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keephas enough WP:RS.Quotevegas (talk) 09:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Makgala, Christian John (2006). "Bid to Settle Jewish Refugees from Nazi-Germany in Botswana, 1938-1939". Botswana Notes and Records. 38: 20–32. ISSN 0525-5090.

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