Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish Task Force

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus - defaults to keep. It is unlikely that a consensus on this matter will ever be achieved. I have had significant difficulty in trying to sort out references to JTF vs. generic 'Jewish task forces' that relate to political activities. For instance, consider the article [1] which obviously refers to a different 'task force' as it is 'newly created' in 2006 as opposed to the creation year of 1991 listed in the article; nonetheless, those who below cite many Google hits would without inspecting the content consider this a valid hit supporting the claim of notability. However, I was able to verify that JTF broadcasts a radio program on QPTV in New York; see [2]. There is a great deal of work that should be done to provide valid, reliable source support for the content of this article and I am concerned at how polarized the views are over it. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Task Force

This article has no citations, no reliable sources, fails WP:WEB, as notability is not established through secondary sources, and seems to have POV problems. Sefringle 04:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that there is this big debate, and numerous individuals who continually butcher the JTF article is all the proof I need that they're legit, influential, and the article deserves to stay. Some of the folks here must be sad individuals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.66.173 (talk • contribs)
We should definately keep this article, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.89.128 (talk • contribs)
Comment: I don't know if this deserves to be kept or not, but I do notice that some editors have really gutted the article lately... a day or two ago it had a lot more info. *Dan T.* 04:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll restore the origional unsourced version for the duration of the Afd. It still does not add any sources though.--Sefringle 04:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. -- Y not? 04:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletions. -- Y not? 04:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there ought to be sources, since condemnation by mainstream organizations is asserted in the article. Any group such as this broadcasting in NYC would be N, and the sources given at least prove its real existence. Let's see if sources appear to show that other have noticed the nonsense. DGG 05:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to some other Kahanism-related article. I searched Google and found practically nothing to suggest that this group is notable. Specifically "Jewish task force" -Wikipedia gets 900 hits, but most of them are other task forces. Keep in mind that Kahanism in general is a fringe group in the Jewish community, like the Neturei Karta, and is not taken seriously by most Jews. YechielMan 06:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/Merge/redirect For the same reasons as YechielMan - "Jewish Task Force" appears to be non-existent other than their website and public cable tv show. Doing a Google Search and News Search shows no suitable sourceable material outside of their own jtf.org website. Lothey 09:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Jewcruft? Extremistcruft? Whatever, but this notability doesn't seem to be notable outside of riling up the naïve, in much the same way as GNAA. Lankiveil 11:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Keep. Seems to be a notable group. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 16:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep seems to pass WP:N. I would like to see proper inline citation, however, TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 16:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no sources, I could not find any via google either in hebrew or in english. Of interest is that this article was deleted from the hebrew wikipedia here; while the hebrew wikipedia does tend to have a stricter deltionist stance than the english in this instance I completely agree. ~~I am also nominating the related article on the organizations founder Chaim Ben Pesach.~~ Jon513 18:43, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I am nominating the article Chaim Ben Pesach for speedy deletion as it was already the subject of an AFD debate resulting in delete. Jon513 18:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. Although the lack of WP:RS is troubling. If this is not resolved I would not object to renominating. Google has 25.500 hits[3] so somebody must be able to find the needed references.Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 06:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge (and Redirect) this article (after serious edits and trimmings) with the Kahanism article. IZAK 09:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. A radio program and television show surely passes WP:N--Gerash 77 13:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with other Kahanist articles. רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 20:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and un-lock. 72.92.124.149 20:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, merge, or modify The page reads like the JTF advertisement. They are not paying Wikipedia for it, so... --Doom777 21:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete , yeah this does read like a advertisement for an extremist website. Lets get rid of it as soon as possible. I urge wiki mods to delete this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flash Virus (talk • contribs) 23:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]
KEEP! JTF is one of two primary Kahanist organizations in the USA. Their chairman is the former chairman of the Jewish Defense League and I have never seen a book about Meir Kahane that does not mention him also, often in depth. They have had a public television program in Queens for over ten years and have had an internet presence nearly as long. Suck, the Village Voice, and other New York-based media have done in-depth articles on JTF and Chaim Ben Pesach (aka Vincent Vancier). A great deal of work has gone into this article, as the history of revisions shows. Let's not throw all that work out, regardless of how we might feel about the group's political viewpoints. Afabbro 18:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP "Jewish Task Force" produces 25,400 google hits. That may indicate that it is more notable than some might otherwise believe. However, the google count may include some hits that are unrelated to the organization. Certainly the article can be improved, but I see no advantage to deleting or merging it. If anyone can point out exactly how deleting or merging it will improve Wikipedia, I will certainly consider changing my vote.Doright 08:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, merge, or rewrite for the same reasons as Doom777. --Nupractor 12:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I'd like to point out that this article has been on Wikipedia for almost 3 years (since 2004). Why are we suddenly deleting it? Revise it if you feel that's appropriate, but do not delete it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.230.177.22 (talk • contribs)
Merge or Delete: Is not important to stand on own merits --Miamite 04:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP You're all a bunch of politically correct COWARDS. I dare one of you little WIMPS to vote on a deletion of the New Black Panther Party article. Whether you like it or not, JTF is a noteworthy organization. They're financing the classes for the Jerusalem Talmud [4]. They have a forum that is growing exponentially [5]. They're a significant organization that deserves a stand alone article. If you want to be "fair" and "objective" why don't you consider deleting the Stormfront article? You'll set quite a precedent if the JTF article is deleted from Wikipedia. That being of a bunch of hypocritical fascists who delete something they deem to be "extreme". You're all full of it. 24.46.114.229 06:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find more sources about JTF (that aren't links to it's own webstite; Arutz Sheva is a borderline new source but that is fine) I would consider changing my opinion. The link to israelnationalnews you provide above mentions JTF only in passing. Jon513 22:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seems to be notable. -- Karl Meier 19:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
delete - "seems to be notable" and "one guy from Village Voice mentioned them, according to their own website" don't persuade me. What would persuade me to vote keep would be real articles from real news organizations which talk about JTF in detail. Or heck, even books. If the article's been there for 3 years, shouldn't there be some verifiable external sources? If you think the article should be kept, add some real sources! AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 23:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.