Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of automotive artists

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 15:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of automotive artists

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Badly formatted (alphabetized on first name instead of surname) and entirely unsourced list of mostly non-notable people. Of the 18 people here, just four have articles to link to, and virtually all of the others are singletons where the link in this list is the only redlink that exists anywhere in Wikipedia mainspace to their name, meaning that nobody else has ever previously assessed them as potentially notable enough for an article at all. And the only one of those redlinks that does have other redlinks in other articles, the redlinks are expecting a different person, because they're sports team rosters from 20+ years after this article says the artist died.
And while automobiles are obviously a topic that an artist can depict in art, the article cites absolutely no evidence that "automotive art" is an established genre of art that people can specialize in to the exclusion of other genres. Putting a cat in an artwork does not automatically render the creator into a "cat artist" per se, and on and so forth: in order to justify a list of automotive artists, we would also have to be able to write a head article that establishes and sources that "automotive art" is even a standard and recognized and defined and analyzed thing in the first place.
If somebody who works on artist biographies wants to keep a worklist of potential future article topics, they can do that in sandbox or project space, but this would need to meet much higher and stricter standards of notability and sourceability to become mainspace-worthy. Bearcat (talk) 16:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Lists of people. Bearcat (talk) 16:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Fails WP:NLIST and even if it didn't, the small number of entries notable enough for a WP page makes the need for a list questionable. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 18:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I had seen this on NPP, and tagged it for notability and unsourced. The reason why I did not nominate it for deletion is that there actually is a subculture of American artists that might fit with the list, although none of them are currently included on the list. I am thinking of the Custom Car Culture peeps and ace pinstripers like Von Dutch (a.k.a. Kenneth Howard), Ed "Big Daddy" Roth, Robert Williams and other Southern California artists. I am also thinking about what writers like Tom Wolfe author of The Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline Baby, art critic Ralph Rugoff among others have written, and the Kustom Kulture show that was presented at the Laguna Art Museum years ago. I am also thinking of photographers who documented low-rider culture, people like Meridel Rubenstein, Danny Lyon as well as earlier photographers who documented hot rod culture, as evidenced in the book: The Birth of Hot Rodding: The Story of the Dry Lakes Era. Also there is Jean Tinguely's Le Safari de la Mort Moscovite, Chris Burden's Big Job and Billy Al Bengston's Dento series. More recent examples of contemporary artists who used actual cars or addressed car culture, include Richard Prince, Rose Bean Simpson, Andrea Polli, Maurizio Cattelan, Erwin Wurm, Gabriel Orozco, Damián Ortega, and many others. There is also the artist Kane Kwei from Ghana known for his carved wood automobile coffins. So I think there is potential here for a notable list but at this time this should either be blown up via WP:TNT and deleted or saved and written in an encyclopedic and historical manner that includes independent reliable sources that specifically address these artist's car-related works. I do believe enough sources exist to improve it, but I'm not sure I have the time to make those improvements before this AfD ends. Netherzone (talk) 19:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment 2 - in the event that this gets Draftified, here are some more suggestions for notable automotive artists: Pete Millar, John Chamberlain, also there is CARtoons Magazine, Tom Medley, Shawn Kerri (a.k.a. Shawn Maureen Fitzgerald). There is also Chris Burden's B-Car, and the notorious volkswagon piece.[1] Also Edward Kienholz' Back Seat Dodge '38 (1964). Most of these are Americans but would imagine there are also global additions that could be made.

I'm surprised (!) by my own interest in this niche genre...guess it must trigger something from my childhood ;-)

If the original article creator is not interested in making improvements, I'm willing to host it in my userspace as a draft for development to see if it can be brought up to meet notable-list criteria, or to start an article on Automotive art (or whatever it might be called) and I can work on it when I find time to do so (now is the busiest time of year at my job.) So I guess my !vote is delete-or-draftify. Netherzone (talk) 17:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete - As stated in my comment above I think there is potential here, however the list as written does not meet our criteria for notable lists, nor do the artists. The links in the See Also section do not show that any of these artists, with the exception of one non-notable one, Klaus Wagger, make work that depicts or uses automobiles. Therefore, it should be deleted per WP:TNT, and failing to meet WP:NLIST. Netherzone (talk) 17:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The source for the list of is now 1 commercial site (Artland). That site generates some curiously inaccurate artist biographies. Check out Don Breckon who was, evidently "influenced by the artistic atmosphere of the time. Abstract Expressionism prevailed in the 1950s as a primary method of painting, and explored ideas about the sublime and spirituality". Also I don't think Harry Anderson (artist) is an automotive illustrator. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

His article does say he did some advertising illustration work for Ford, but you're right, that's clearly not his primary notability claim for the purposes of warranting listing or categorization as such. Bearcat (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.