Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Madelyn Dunham

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep (non-admin closure) as per general consensus.-Ravichandar 04:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Madelyn Dunham

Not notable enough. --Philip Stevens (talk) 19:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- seems to be establishing notability through reliable sources, "not notable enough" is not a rationale I am fond of. AndreNatas (talk) 19:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Seems like a likely search, multiple press coverages helps; I'm not fond of "she might make more news in the future" but it's likely. She's no Roger Clinton, but it's notable enough for me. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 19:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:BIO#Invalid criteria. The sources are either about Obama himself, Obama's mother and only one i directly about Madelyn. There is a "distance" between a notable individual and a non-notable individual that should be observed, and in this case as a person she is non-notable. It probably should redirect to her daughter or her grandson where the sources support notability outside of "this is a relative of X". –– Lid^(Talk) 01:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - She raised Obama from age 10 on while his mother was running around the world and is discussed in Obama's best selling book. She is Obama's only living ancestor and thus subject of numerous articles (and thus subject of numerous articles -- particularly those delving into his white background including the claim that Obama facial appearance is similar to his maternal grandparents). WP:BIO says A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. At this writing I see at least six sources. A book and numerous sources is more than enough to meet the criteria. Americasroof (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

None of the sources emphasise notability, but rather the peripheral relationship to the other members of her family. Notability is not inherited is a well known notability criterion, the same should be retroactive in that people can not become notable from what their descendants do. –– Lid^(Talk) 03:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is an article about the woman who raised the first serious black American candidate for President. This is of obvious interest and should be kept. FarleyKatz (talk) 03:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your keep reasoning seems to reference both WP:INTERESTING and WP:ITSA. Many people raised Obama in his life given his multiple homes, from Hawaii to Indonesia to back to hawaii and philosphically to Kenya. We do not need an article for every one of those who guided or raised him. –– Lid^(Talk) 06:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep probably we do indeed need an article on the various people this significant in his life. DGG (talk) 17:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- On what basis? –– Lid^(Talk) 22:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Ann Dunham. Notable enough to include in his mother's article. --YUL89YYZ (talk) 14:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, though I would not object to a merge. GlassCobra 18:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, Are you guys crazy? Wikipedia lacks any information on Obama's family members: a serious shortcoming. This seems like a sneaky coverup coming from the Obama campaign (look at the histories of the Delete advocates)! After all, isn't this the woman who've they ensured hasn't spoken with the press in two years? What has she got to say, to hide? She's incredibly important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.10.84 (talk) 00:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, She is the only living full blood relative of the man who, polls show, is most likely to be America's next President, and you think she's not notable? She RAISED this man from the age of 10. She has more insight into Obama's character than any living person on earth. Think about it. Now if Obama's mother were alive, she might not be notable. But Lilian Carter has an entry, as does John McCain's mother and Hillary Clinton's mother (who are both living). I think if you delete Madelyn Dunn, it is only fair that you delete Dorothy Emma Howell Rodman and Roberta Wright McCain. Therefore if this article is deleted, I will be posting "requests for deletion" on both of those pages. (I will concede that if Madelyn Dunham should die, she may no longer be notable.) Finally, a recent article quoted Madelyn Dunham (though not by name) in the New York Times. I have added that citation to the article. If you don't like the article, edit it. But please don't delete it. GreekParadise (talk) 15:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.