Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marcus (comedian)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Cirt (talk) 08:27, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marcus (comedian)

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Non-notable stand-up comedian, whose only IMDB credit is a reality show that he lost. Flunks WP:BIO, WP:CREATIVE. Six footnotes in article, one is to Twitter, two are to a podcast, one is to an ad, one is Deseret News coverage of his reality show appearance, and one is a newspaper story that he guest-judged a karaoke competition at a Knoxville bar. THF (talk) 19:19, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- appears to be a not notable wrestler come low grade comedian. Off2riorob (talk) 19:27, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete per the above. ukexpat (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete per the above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.202.34.43 (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

— 98.202.34.43 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Strong Keep (withdrawn- see new vote below) Basic notability requirements that "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published[3] secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent,[4] and independent of the subject.[5]" Marucs is the subject of many secondary sources-- the article should not be deleted just because the references in the article do not include all reliable sources on the subject. There are dozens of reliable sources saying he came in 2nd on Last Comic Standing or was participating in the show or LCS tour, but it seems redundant to have so many multiple sources confirming the same fact. (If you need me to list them here I will do so, but just peruse the first few pages of google results for "last comic standing marcus"-- and yes i know the google test isn't reliable, but you will find sources for news stories from newspapers and tv news stories covering this) He came in 2nd (hardly losing) on a tv show with several million viewers each week. I know this is kind of the definition of the pokemon test, but all other contestants form this season have pages and are notable for their articles written about them appearing on the show-- Marcus meets that definition as well. His current career includes tours of comedy clubs around the country and is popular on the college circuit (see his myspace page for current schedule-- hardly a low grade comedian-- eg, he is headlining a major club in Shreveport for 4 nights next month! He is also a regular contributor to major sites like FunnyorDie.com and a regular contributor to Geek Show Podcast, which has garnered enough media attention to merit inclusion. He also has thousands of followers and fans on Myspace, Facebook, and Twitter. It should also be noted that this article was much more substantive and better sourced one month ago, but much of the info was blanked out by an administrator and has been the subject of edit wars since then, with the inability to restore much of the info because of this. The only reason this got noted for deletion because of a dispute over the subject's last name. The article needs rewriting and more sources, not deletion. Whillice (talk) 00:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The resume "regular contributor to FunnyorDie.com and a local Utah podcast, plus thousands of fans on Myspace, and he's playing at a club in Shreveport" is self-refuting on the question of notability. (Too, only 598 fans on Facebook, half as many as Moxie X Cathedra. Who? Exactly.) I took your suggestion to google Marcus, and found no RS about Marcus, as opposed to about the show, and many of the links were unsurprisingly not about this Marcus, who is far from famous enough to get away with having a single name. (He did have eight attendees at a Facebook event at a comedy club, though.) Any press coverage of his appearance on Last Comic Standing -- a show that, unlike American Idol, has yet to launch a single career for any of its contestants -- can be handled in the article related to that show. Right now, there are literally zero reliable secondary sources about any biographical details, and the subject of the article claims that the one newspaper that covered even minor biographical details, such as his last name, did so inaccurately. THF (talk) 18:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Response Both Ralphie May and Rich Vos got started on Last Comic Standing. Both have had successful careers. Others, such as ANT and Iliza Schlesinger have had bumps to their careers, while not having the same exposure as Ralphie and Vos, but regularly appear on shows like The Soup or Best Week Ever.

Also, this article includes 2 sources that are honest to God newspapers, the Deseret News and the Salt Lake City Weekly and one from a tv newscast from KSL-TV.

This doesn't negate many of your arguments and I think I have to agree you are correct in many cases. As you said, the resume I stated is self-defeating: notability is essentially mentions by reliable sources. Article needs more of these. Whillice (talk) 09:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep per the above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.118.64 (talk) 02:31, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

— 70.112.118.64 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Appeal - It looks like i am on the wrong side of this argument, or at least outnumbered, despite my contentions that wikipedia policy is on my side- contentions that no one has made substantive arguments against, I might add. As compromise, and in deference to the vandalism and edit war scorched earth campaign this article has been subjected to over the past months, please allow me and others to find better reliable sources and rewrite. Today is literally the first day ever this has been nominated for deletion with no warning to the possibility of this via talk page or tab and I'm not sure if I can really do t justice over the next week alone. Give this a month to rewrite? Whillice (talk) 07:07, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Added some new links and removed contentious ones to give you an idea of where this is going. Whillice (talk) 08:39, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:BIO. Whillice's news sources seem to amount to self-published data from Pegasusnews (a community news site where anybody can post), and a press release by NBC detailing his show appearance. I applaud Whillice for trying, but if this is the best a concentrated good faith effort can do, the subject is clearly NN. Ray^Talk 22:24, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article includes sources from 2 newspapers, 1 tv newscast. I was unaware Pegasus News was self-publishing, or else would've searched further for a better source. However, please look at it more closely as a source: http://www.pegasusnews.com/pressroom/?refscroll=1216 It has received praise from the Dallas Business Journal and USC's Annenberg School of Journalism. While the content is user-generated (so is wikipedia, I might add), there is a great deal of editorial control through a complex mathematical system which excludes the least relevant results. However, will look for a less controversial source as soon as I have time. Whillice (talk) 09:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If you genuinely feel the article can be improved and meets our WP:Notability requirements, feel free to ask for it to be userfied if it is deleted (which it looks like it will be). However bear in mind BLP applies to all of wikipedia so you should not ask for it to be userfied unless you genuinely believe you can improve it sufficiently to move back to main space sometime in the near future (i.e. in a few months). As has been mentioned, you will need to find sources which discuss him in detail, rather then just mentioning he was on some TV show once. BTW the 'so is wikipedia, I might add' doesn't help your argument since wikipedia is most definitely not a WP:RS as clearly specified in many places, not even close and the fact that we are user-generated is one of the many reasons. Nil Einne (talk) 19:20, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice and the correction. I do believe this can meet notability per WP:BIO as someone who has made s specific, important contribution to their field, specifically by the fact that Marcus is recognized as one of the most talented impressionists working today [citation needed] -- I kid, of course about the tag. That's the problem. Not enough time to go to Lexis-Nexis and do some heavy research on this topic and find reliable sources which back claims like that up.

I know this isn't EXACTLY the same, but one of the other portions of WP:BIO and WP:ENT is winning a major award. I noticed within the guidelines under WP:ENT and its subsection WP:PORNSTAR that the fact that someone was ever named a Playboy Playmate is reason enough to be considered notable. Is being a finalist for a show like Last Comic Standing similar? I know THF thinks the entire show is relatively non-notable, as it has failed to be a platform to launch someone who rises to the level of media prominence of a Dane Cook or Dave Chappelle (or in his mind, I guess, a Kelly Clarkson or Clay Aiken). But in collecting encyclopedic knowledge about standup comedians, are we only to include those who rise to cultural salience among the likes of Seinfeld, Cosby, Kinnison, and Pryor? Notability should be proven by published sources, yes? That's where we should draw the line, following also BIO, etc.

Or are those who have been selected as among the 12 best in their peer group for a network TV showcase be considered to have been given a major enough award anyway among their peer group, the same as 12 new Playmates are chosen every year? Certainly there are Playboy Playmates who have never done another notable thing in their lives other than that, and there are no other sourced media out there for their accomplishments or life before or after, but they are explicitly guaranteed notability because of the honor that itself is. Please don't misunderstand this, I'm not not trying to make a WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS argument, I'm trying to make a logic argument. As long as the content itself is not crufty and well-sourced, should it stand? Comments? Whillice (talk) 08:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep if Whillice can find some reliable sources and quits repeatedly deleting the only published, sourced report as to the guy's last name. This is supposed to be a biography, not an entertainer's advertisement; his history prior to being on that TV show is part of the article, or should be. --Orange Mike | Talk 21:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch! Whillice (talk) 08:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your insistence in inserting the weakly cited name is the only reason this article is at AFD in the first place. Well, rather the spark that attracted the attention that has ultimately brought us here today. Off2riorob (talk) 21:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per original nomination. I just don't think the sources provided are good enough. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 20:48, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I withdraw previous arguments. Please delete and let's let this one die. Thanks everyone for a good conversation, and don't ever say I wasn't reasonable about this.Whillice (talk) 01:07, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.