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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a clear consensus that Ms Machado is notable in Wikipedia's sense and should have an article. If she is unhappy with the content, there is advice at WP:BLP/H and contact details at Wikipedia:Contact us/Article problem/Factual error (from subject). The IP says "information was copied from another source almost verbatim" - if you can show a source which pre-dates this article, it will be deleted as a copyright violation, but according to user Pkeets (talk) s/he wrote it. Once published in Wikipedia, the CC-BY-SA license permits copying and re-use, so there is no fraud in Chrono Press republishing it, though we may think they have a nerve to try to charge CDN$42.32 for what can be read for free here. There is also nothing wrong, from our point of view, in Facebook reproducing the information, though I imagine Ms Machado can ask Facebook to take it down if she does not want to have an entry there. JohnCD (talk) 10:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marianella Machado

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Marianella Machado (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Completing nomination on behalf of User:Golothir. On the merits, I have no position at this time, though I may comment on the allegations in the nom. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 18:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The original rationale from the nom's edit summary reads thus: Not a famous person; information on this page has been used in Wikipedia Copy and Paste Fraud. See ISBN 978-613-5-78520-3 in Google UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 18:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I've asked the nominator to comment here; I can't find the work the ISBN refers to, either through the search link or through Google. Even if the subject used wikipedia to write a book, they can do that if it's properly attributed, and that's not a reason to delete. The non-notability, on the other hand... UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 18:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did a search for terms, and found a copy of the Wikipedia bio on her Facebook page and also here: Amazon link, which appears to be the ISBN in question. The book and page both credit Wikipedia. I can't see any fraud. Pkeets (talk) 01:28, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. I've asked the nom to post additional information here. As to notability... it is a little thin, but news articles and encyclopedia entries are good evidence of at least some notability. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone with an entry in another encyclopedia is considered notable for Wikipedia purposes. Pkeets (talk) 14:39, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very much depends on the encyclopedia, I imagine. But in this case, I agree. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I note that she is an accomplished composer, musical and mathematical theoretician, and has many musical and scholarly article works. Moreover, her work has itself been the subject of articles. This is from one of the sources: Some of her scholarly and creative achievements have won awards and recognitions: her dissertation for her Doctor of Musical Arts degree in Composition, "Dihaguara" (1993), a ballet that integrates music, visual art, mathematics, was sponsored by The University Research Council Summer Fellowship, University of Cincinnati (1991); her dissertation for her PhD degree in Hispanic American literature, "Asi en la tierra como en el cielo" (1998), an approach to analysis and creation of poetry from a music theory perspective, won the Taft Foundation Fellowship Award at University of Cincinnati (1997-98); her choral composition, "Trilce, Poem XXXII" (1982), was chosen and recorded in Ukraine by ERMMedia Recording as part of its CD collection, "Master Pieces of the New Era" (2006). Also, two of Marianella Machado's articles, "Reflexiones sobre la relación poesía-música" and "Una interpretación del ritmo poético en Mester de Lejanía de Pedro Lastra," (published by the journal Mapocho, in Chile, 2005 and 2007, respectively) are examples of her interdisciplinary research. Moreover, her musical composition "The Triumph of Love," based on an old Spanish legend, was commissioned and premiered by The Starling Chamber String Orchestra of Cincinnati at the Kennedy Center of Washington D.C. in November 2005. Finally, it is important to mention that Butterfly Triptych, for chamber ensemble, was the subject of a cross-disciplinary research that Marianella Machado undertook with Dr. Dirk Schlingmann (a Professor of Mathematics and Chair of the Eastern Kentucky University, Mathematics and Statistics Department) and Dr. Chris Kulp (a former Assistant Professor of Physics at EKU). The result of this collaborative work was the publication of an article, "Composition and Analysis of Music Using Mathematica," at the journal, "Mathematica in Education and Research" (MIER), in February, 2007; and also the presentation, "Composition and Creation of Music Using Mathematics," for the Roark Lectures Series Award of EKU, in March 2007. Furthermore, she was given the Excellence in Research and Creative Activity Award of EKU for the academic year 2009 - 2010.Marianella Machado's poetry books, "Encuentros Causales" (2006) and "Menudencias" (2001) were published by Authorhouse Publishers in March 2009. "Marianella Machado Biography". American Composers' Forum. Retrieved February 8, 2012. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:37, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that she's notable, membership in the ACF is not restricted or audited in any way; it seems that anyone could join and have their biography posted in the member directory. But I see where you're coming from. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:54, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you that membership does not establish notability. But I think accomplishment (and scholarly reaction to it) does. 7&6=thirteen (☎)
And if you look up her name on U-tube, she has a really neat video of her horse. Actually, she has like three videos. :) Just kidding (about the notability of that, but I did like the video). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:56, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:58, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All of which goes to show that "notable" is not the same as "famous." Pkeets (talk) 04:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- I cannot think of a single precedent in eight years of being a Wikipedian, for seeing someone with an article in the New Grove -- the gold standard for music encyclopedias, in any language -- being deleted at AFD. Speedied sometimes, if the article was just a single line stub, but never AFD'd. Antandrus (talk) 00:58, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the nominator hasn't commented since I opened the debate, nor have they edited anywhere, this looks very much like a drive-by tagging. If nothing else, note that no one is recommending deletion, and this will likely be a slam-dunk close as keep. It also puts what could be a serious allegation (copyvio) to bed, seeing as how the AFd tag got people looking into that. Not a total waste of time. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 22:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly is the allegation? The book postdates the article, and it looks to be one of those things that presents Wikipedia biographies in book form. It's clearly identified as such in the Amazon description. Pkeets (talk) 11:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's my point, I asked the nom to explain what exactly he was on about, and he never showed up. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 17:02, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I work in IT at Ms. Machado's university and am writing on her behalf, as she is not experienced in such matters. Her point of contention with this article is two-fold. Firstly, information was copied from another source almost verbatim as an article. This article was then published in a paperback "anthology" which cost $40 USD. She was notified about this from colleagues at another institution who questioned the authenticity and quality of such a publication. Additionally, I believe other works of hers have been published in a similar manner originating from this technique. She is concerned that future publications may be rendered using this information in which her likeness and work are used without her knowledge and consent. We are aware that the ISBN is invalid. She has and can provide proof that such a book exists.
Moreover, she argues that she is a private individual and not someone of renown sufficient to warrant that an article be published.
I would be happy to put her in contact directly with anyone wishing to verify these facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.89.50.120 (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Within the scope of Wikipedia, there isn't a whole lot we can do once our material has been published - even if this article were to be deleted, such deletion does not revoke the License under which it was originally published. This means that the material could still be used for a book (or whatever), so long as it is correctly attributed to Wikipedia. That said, it's possible that Ms. Machado may wish to pursue recourse against whoever is writing inaccurate books about her, and that falls into areas of law - and Law is one area on which, by rule, we cannot offer advice. In the context of this debate, a good first step might be to post the correct ISBN here. AFD debates are not indexed by Google and other search engines, so noting the ISBN here will give no free publicity to this individual, if that is your concern. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 21:53, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(after edit conflict) You claim that information here was copied from another source almost verbatim. Could you please identify that source? If there is a copyright violation then such content will certainly be removed from Wikipedia. You also say that Ms Machado is a private individual and not someone of renown sufficient to warrant that an article be published. Does this mean that she has also contacted the Oxford University Press to request that her entry in Grove Music Online be removed? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:59, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
157.89.50.120 writes: "her likeness and work are used without her knowledge and consent." Her likeness? Her work? Where? What is she talking about? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:46, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, since she is notable as many commenters have said. If the subject has an issue with the content of the article, can she (or her representative) please clarify what content is objectionable, inaccurate, or in violation of copyright so that it can be corrected or removed? - Jorgath (talk) 22:29, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There should be no copyright violation; the sources for the article are listed in the references. This article appears on a Community page at Facebook. If she is unaware of it, then she needs to take control of the page at Facebook. I can't see in the history that her likeness has ever been attached to the the Wikipedia article. Perhaps the book has made use of other resources as well? I don't think the ISBN is invalid. Here it is from Amazon.com:

Marianella Machado [Paperback], Pollux Variste Kjeld (Editor), Price: CDN$ 42.32, Paperback: 60 pages, Publisher: Chrono Press (July 2011), Language: English, ISBN-10: 6135785206, ISBN-13: 978-6135785203. Pkeets (talk) 01:58, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Keep: Like most other editors who have commented, I agree that a Grove citation is the gold standard for musical subjects, and the only public figures who succeed at having their Wikipedia articles removed are far, far more borderline than that ... leaving aside, of course, that people who want to retain anonymity probably ought not publish books, compose concert music or write numerous academic articles. (That aside, I am quite surprised by the anon IP's assertion that Dr. Machado, an accomplished and multiply-published academic, is "not experienced" in using words to get her point across.) Ravenswing 09:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To publish or not - that is becoming a quandary, isn't it? Facebook has even appropriated her name for a page. Pkeets (talk) 09:28, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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