Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pahri language

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. While there's some basic agreement on a redirect or merge, there's really nothing substantial to go by to close this AfD after three relists. Therefore I'm closing this as no consensus but with a recommendation to discuss on the talk page to come up with both an appropriate action -- Redirect vs Merge and the right target for it. —SpacemanSpiff 04:12, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Pahri language

Pahri language (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

From Narky Blert Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pahari language This is a mess. Pahri language should not be a DAB page – it contains one redirect, and one WP:SEEALSO. It fails WP:TWODABS by some margin, and as such is ripe for deletion.

Not clear if there is a best target for a redirect. PRehse (talk) 15:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

• Redirect to Pahari language (subject to the result of its deletion discussion, linked by OP). It looks like a plausible alternative spelling or transliteration. Narky Blert (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nepal-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

• Redirect to Pahari language (or wherever that gets merged/moved to). It is indeed a mess. Batternut (talk) 16:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

The only book result I have found for "Pahri language" relates to Poonch and Rajouri districts, whose articles link to Pahari languages, Pahari language (Kashmir) and Dogri (a Western Pahari language) - who knows which Pahari is intended in such cases, hence wider disambiguation required.

References

• Don't redirect to Pahari language. First of all, "Pahri" is reliably attested only as the name of a dialect of the Newar language. If redirecting to a single article is to be considered, then this is the only legitimate target. However, now a source has been unearthed (thanks, Batternunt, for finding that!), where "Pahri" refers to Pahari language (Kashmir) (it's obvious from the context that this is the intended meaning). I'm not quite sure what to make of it: it only mentions the languages very briefly before moving on to a completely different topic, and in another place the paper uses a wacky spelling of "Bolti" for Balti language. Are these misspellings, or variants deliberately changed to match the local pronunciation? I don't know. Regardless of how "proper" this use is, I would err on the side of reader convenience and include an entry for this language in the body of the current dab page, not the least because "Pahri" makes sense as a romanisation of that language's native name. I don't think it makes sense as a romanisation of the native names of the other languages listed at the related page Pahari language, but a link to it should be included as the two names are probably easy to confuse. So we now have two more or less legitimate entries, and a third link in the "See also", which is enough to recommend keeping. – Uanfala (talk) 05:33, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Uanfala: Could you share that attestation with us? Batternut (talk) 09:55, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

To begin with, the linked article Newar language has a dedicated section about it. – Uanfala (talk) 01:53, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

You mean "Sindhupalchowk Pahri", with its citation-free 23 words, which is ambiguous over the spelling, Pahri or Pahari? Batternut (talk) 10:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

.... and there's a section in Grierson' Linguistic Survey of India (vol. 3, pt. 1, pp. 227ff). And also, virtually all linguistics papers that come up on a proquest search for "Pahri" are about it. – Uanfala (talk) 15:28, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Grierson does not use the term "Pahri language". If any proquest hits are citable you could add them to the Newar language article. Batternut (talk) 14:34, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

But he does use "Pahri" as the name of a language (and the fact that he sees it as a dialect of Newar is irrelevant). – Uanfala (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

TL;DR; this idea doesn't help readers, who may be unsure of the spelling and who need one convenient target. Narky Blert (talk) 01:23, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Another surprising view, in passing: "Language: Nepali ... Status: Nepali is the official language of Sikkim and District of Darjeeling. It is one of the Indian languages of the Indo-Aryan family and belonging to the eastern Pahri group of the Pahri languages," found at Centre For Applied Linguistics & Translation Studies. This instance just shows the wider use of Pahri as an alternate name for Pahari. Batternut (talk) 23:24, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Almost certainly a typo. – Uanfala (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

• How about merging into the main dab page Pahri? – Uanfala (talk) 01:53, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Simple deletion would be preferable - since the single documented mention of "Pahri language" just looks like a typo of Pahari. Batternut (talk) 10:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 05:54, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

• I've already cast a broad !vote above, but if a single concrete outcome were to be chosen, I would go for redirecting to the main dab page Pahri . – Uanfala (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lourdes 14:06, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 04:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.