Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Punjabiyat

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. There is a clear consensus that this should be kept in some form. Discussions about the scope of the article and/or merging the content should take place on Talk:Punjabiyat. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:13, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Punjabiyat

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Amitized had tried to nominate this, but some of the steps weren't followed. I'm just listing this on their behalf. Following rationale is copied from their original attempt at nomination.

Delete - 10 years since this article was started, 3 lines is what we have until now. Moreover Google trends shows this is just a random buzzword pushed intermittently in online content. Amitized (talk) 07:17, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Hemantha (talk) 14:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Hemantha (talk) 14:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Pakistan and Punjab. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:25, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thank you @Hemantha. Amitized (talk) 04:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP as per citations. --_{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 08:16, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Much improved article due to the effort of NeverTry4Me since the above nomination. Ngrewal1 (talk) 16:57, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment NeverTry4Me Ngrewal1 - how do sources distinguish this from Punjabi Nationalism? The article states this is a linguistic movement (though we have Punjabi Language Movement), but it appears to me to be a term synonymous with movements around Punjabi identity and nationhood, albeit with different implications in Pakistan, in India and also acting as bridge for Punjabis in both states. I'm not necessarily against keeping the article, but it's not clear to me the distinctions with the already existing articles. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 06:46, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Goldsztajn Don't worry, I am on it to expand the article. I have gone through citations and it will help to expand the article. What I have learnt so far is, editors should expand/wikify the articles, instead of nominating for AfD. _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 06:52, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @NeverTry4Me - whether the article is expanded or not, will not necessarily change the outcome here. We need to be able to show that there are reliable sources to justify stand alone articles, otherwise it will be necessary I suspect to merge this article with Punjabi nationalism. What sources allow us to distinguish Punjabiyat from Punjabi nationalism? Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 09:35, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Goldsztajn thank you for your valuable inputs. I honor your statement. Per my opinion, I have found "Punjabiyat" is NOTEABLE but there are some explanatory contradictions that differ from Punjabi nationalism. Of course we need to reach to an outcome about the subject.

I am trying to ascertain whether it should be Merged to Punjabi nationalism or expand as a standalone.

Going through tons of citation about Punjabiyat, till now what I have found is "Clean-up and major edit".

I honor your decision to not to agree with me, but I am searching/trying to find ways against AfD. Hope you w3ill understand my poor English. Regard _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 09:59, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep This is potentially quite complex, I doubt there is going to be a simple answer. "This interdisciplinary volume seeks to consider the notion of 'Punjabiyat', a loosely defined term often used to describe a sentiment of belonging or attachment to Punjab and/or the foundations of a shared, cross-religious, cross-caste, cross-class culture."^[1] "Punjabiyat or Punjabi identity evokes simultaneous contradictory images of a splintered identity, yet a potentially powerful economic, political and cultural force."^[2] "This paper demonstrates that a strong sense of Punjabiyat or Punjabi nationalism never existed in the undivided Punjab at any point in history." ^[3]

References

^ Malhotra, Anshu; Mir, Farina, eds. (2012). Punjab Reconsidered: History, Culture, and Practice. doi:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198078012.001.0001. ISBN 9780198078012.
^ Singh, Pritam (2012). "Globalisation and Punjabi Identity: Resistance, Relocation and Reinvention (Yet Again!)" (PDF). Journal of Punjab Studies. 19 (2).
^ Ahmed, Ishtiaq. "Punjab, Punjabis and Punjabiyat: A Convoluted Relationship". Pakistan Monthly Review.

This is clearly not a "random buzzword pushed intermittently in online content". I'm not convinced AfD is the appropriate location to resolve this issue. Regards Goldsztajn (talk) 10:26, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Certainly my intent was not to start a debate about 'Punjabi nationalism' on this AfD forum, when I voted KEEP above here. I was simply happy to see someone, in this case User:NeverTry4Me make an effort to add needed references on an article, that's all. It was my fault that I hurried myself and I neglected to closely read the line about Pakistan – which I have edited the above article to now read as: In Pakistan, its goal is a better status of Punjabi language along with Urdu at state level. Personally, I speak and like Punjabi, Urdu and English languages. My intent certainly was not to push or promote Punjabi nationalism or worse yet Punjabi chauvinism over any other language and culture. Ngrewal1 (talk) 19:39, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but rewrite. 'Punjabiyat' as a philosophical concept is notable phenomenon (in contradiction to the realities of Partition and communalism), documented in scholarly literature. But the article at present is more focused on politics, in a way that misses the point. --Soman (talk) 12:48, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, but consider a merge and redirect to Punjabi nationalism. JBchrch talk 02:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Malhotra, Anshu; Mir, Farina, eds. (2012). Punjab Reconsidered: History, Culture, and Practice. doi:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198078012.001.0001. ISBN 9780198078012.

[2] Singh, Pritam (2012). "Globalisation and Punjabi Identity: Resistance, Relocation and Reinvention (Yet Again!)" (PDF). Journal of Punjab Studies. 19 (2).

[3] Ahmed, Ishtiaq. "Punjab, Punjabis and Punjabiyat: A Convoluted Relationship". Pakistan Monthly Review.

[1]

[2]

[3]