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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Once I back out the non-P&G-focused contributions below, and apply reduced weight to the bludgeoning which was ineffective in providing additional guidelines-compliant info, I'm left with conflicting views around SIGCOV. The majority of tenured editors are of the view that the sourcing in the article, and additionally presented in this discussion, does not meet the threshold for SIGCOV. Crosji dissents from this view but provides little elaboration in their comment. On that basis, I believe there is a consensus to delete. Note to dissenting editors - I won't be overturning this close, so Deletion Review is thataway. Daniel (talk) 09:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shahzaib Rind

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Shahzaib Rind (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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I draftified this BLP on a non-notable athlete because I believe it doesn't meet the WP:N. Then the creator of the BLP submitted the draft for review, which I declined, but it was still moved to the main NS. I don’t think it meets GNG or even WP:ATHLETE, thus AFD'd it. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:54, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s interesting that you’re familiar with the policies, especially for someone with fewer than 50 edits. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a sock of a UPE. In any case, could you show how the subject meets the GNG? --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 05:31, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your feedback. The subject does meet the WP:GNG criteria as shown by the extensive coverage in multiple independent and reliable sources, including Dawn News https://www.dawn.com/news/1779610/shahzaib-rind-becomes-pakistans-first-world-champion-in-karate-combat-event, Islamabad Scene https://islamabadscene.com/shahzaib-rind-becomes-pakistans-first-ever-karate-combat-sports-champion/, and his profile on ONE Championship https://www.onefc.com/athletes/shahzaib-rindh/. These sources document his national championships and international recognition as a combat sports champion. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 08:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
— Gul Butt (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep Shahzaib Rind is a notable athlete in the field of Wushu and Martial Arts. He is a three-time National Wushu Champion of Pakistan and the first-ever Pakistani to win a Karate Combat World Championship. His achievements include a gold medal in the 3-Nations International Wushu Championship (2016), a silver medal at the South Asian Games (2019), and participation in international events like ONE Championship. He has been covered by reliable sources such as:
1. ONE Championship Profile - Shahzaib Rind https://www.onefc.com/athletes/shahzaib-rindh/
2. Khilari.com Profile - Shahzaib Rind https://www.khilari.com.pk/news/1163/shahzaib-rindh-reigning-west-asia-kickboxing-featherweight-champion
3. Islamabad Scene - First-Ever Pakistani Karate Combat Champion https://islamabadscene.com/shahzaib-rind-becomes-pakistans-first-ever-karate-combat-sports-champion/
4. Dawn News - Shahzaib Rind’s Karate Combat Championship https://www.dawn.com/news/1779610/shahzaib-rind-becomes-pakistans-first-world-champion-in-karate-combat-event
5. Khilari - Shahzaib Rind’s Silver Medal at South Asian Games https://www.khilari.com.pk/news/1157/shahzaib-rindh-settles-for-silver-in-south-asian-games
These references establish Shahzaib’s notability as an athlete with significant national and international recognition. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 05:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
58.27.212.244, Most sources aren't even reliable, with dawn.com being the only exception; however, it only name-checks the subject and clearly fails to meet GNG. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 09:55, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I understand the concern about source reliability. However, in addition to Dawn News, there are other reliable sources documenting Shahzaib Rind’s career:
1. Islamabad Scene: A reputable news website covering sports and events in Pakistan. Their article discusses Shahzaib’s achievements, including his status as the first-ever Pakistani Karate Combat World Champion. [Scene Article]
2. ONE Championship: A globally recognized MMA promotion that tracks fighter profiles and event outcomes. [Championship Profile]
3. Khilari.com: A dedicated sports news website that tracks national and international combat sports. They have covered Shahzaib’s participation in the South Asian Games, West Asia Championship, and his national-level accomplishments. [Profile]
These sources provide extensive coverage of his achievements and establish his notability in the combat sports domain. Please let me know if additional references are needed. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 11:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid you don't seem to understand what reliable sources are. Please take some time to familiarize yourself with WP:RS. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IP - your link to Khilari.com is not helpful and looks like you're trying to fake a source. Ravensfire (talk) 01:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I appreciate the concern about source reliability and notability. The following sources meet the requirements set by WP:GNG and WP:RS for establishing Shahzaib Rind’s notability as an athlete. They provide significant, independent, and reliable coverage of his career and achievements:
1. Samaa TV: A reputable national news outlet in Pakistan that extensively covers significant sports and societal events. The article highlights Shahzaib’s recognition and rewards after his MMA victory against India, establishing his prominence and impact. [1]
2. Associated Press of Pakistan (APP): APP is a government-run news agency known for factual reporting. Several APP articles cover Shahzaib’s meetings with government officials and recognitions, which indicates that his achievements are notable at the provincial and national levels.
- [2]
- [3]
- [4]
3. Aaj News: A respected news network in Pakistan that has covered Shahzaib’s arrival at the General Headquarters (GHQ) alongside notable figures such as Amir Khan, demonstrating his national prominence. [5]
4. Pakistan Today: This source reports on his meeting with provincial leaders and his recognition, establishing his influence within sports and government circles. [6]
5. Radio Pakistan: Being a state-run media source, its coverage of Shahzaib's achievements (e.g., winning world karate championships) indicates national recognition. Articles from Radio Pakistan highlight his success on multiple occasions:
- [7]
- [8]
6. Dawn News: One of Pakistan’s leading news publications, known for high editorial standards. The coverage on Shahzaib’s achievements, including his victory at the Karate Combat Championship, provides significant independent coverage:
- [9]
- [10]
7. BBC Urdu: Coverage by an international, independent news agency like BBC establishes his global notability and influence in martial arts. [11]
8. Geo News: Another major national news outlet that covered his recognition and achievements. [12]
9. The News International: An established newspaper with a wide readership. They covered his world championship win and other accomplishments:
- [13]
- [14]
10. Nation News: They have documented his multiple victories and recognitions, further establishing notability:
- [15]
- [16]
11. UrduPoint: A reliable source for sports news in Pakistan. They cover Shahzaib’s achievements and recognitions, showcasing his impact on Pakistani martial arts:
- [17]
12. ARY News: A leading national broadcaster covering Shahzaib’s achievements, including his international victories. [18]
13. Dunya News: Dunya’s video reports provide a detailed account of Shahzaib’s career highlights and recognitions:
- [19]
- [20]
Each of these sources provides independent coverage and has a reputation for fact-checking and accurate reporting, satisfying Wikipedia’s WP:RS criteria. Their collective documentation of Shahzaib’s career and recognitions demonstrate his significance and notability in the combat sports domain.
Please let me know if there are additional sources or further information required to satisfy all concerns. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 04:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the sources you provided, but I’m still not convinced. The coverage appears to be routine and doesn't meet the significance criteria you mentioned. While every athlete gets some level of coverage, that alone doesn’t mean they pass the WP:N test, which requires meeting either WP:ATHLETE or GNG. Also, if you have any COI, please disclose it. It's concerning when an IP consistently tries to keep an article on a relatively ROTM athlete. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 08:58, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Thank you for your feedback. I want to clarify why the sources provided are not routine and meet the WP:GNG and WP:ATHLETE guidelines:
1. Significant Coverage: The sources do not merely document event participation but discuss Shahzaib’s career trajectory, achievements, and influence in detail. For example:
- Dawn News and BBC Urdu have published feature articles discussing Shahzaib’s impact on martial arts in Pakistan and his journey to becoming the first-ever Pakistani to win a world Karate Combat title, which is a significant accomplishment.
- Associated Press of Pakistan (APP) and Samaa TV report on his multiple recognitions and rewards, including job offers and financial support from provincial governments, showing institutional recognition.
2. Meets WP:ATHLETE: Under WP:ATHLETE, notability is achieved if an athlete has competed in a fully professional league or has been the subject of significant national or international attention.
- Shahzaib has competed at the South Asian Games, ONE Championship, and Karate Combat—each of which qualifies as a professional and highly competitive event.
- His victory in the world Karate Combat Championship brought him international recognition, as documented by multiple reliable sources.
3. Addressing COI Concerns: I want to confirm that I am participating to improve the article based on reliable sources and Wikipedia's guidelines. I have no personal or professional conflict of interest. My goal is to ensure that notable athletes from underrepresented regions, like KPK, Balochistan, Punjab and Sindh receive appropriate coverage on Wikipedia.
Given the above points, I believe Shahzaib’s notability is well established based on significant, independent, and reliable sources. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 10:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLUDGEONING — Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the reminder regarding WP:BLUDGEONING. My intention is not to overwhelm the discussion but to ensure that all relevant facts are presented clearly. I appreciate the feedback and will make sure to keep responses concise and focused on addressing any unresolved concerns. I’m happy to step back and let others weigh in if needed. 58.27.212.244 (talk) 11:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 19:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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