Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Hess

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete as WP:Music violation. (aeropagitica) (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Hess

comment: since the article has changed substantially since this AFD started, I have re-listed it for additional input. Friday (talk) 02:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deleted a couple of times as vanity and non-notable, I cleaned it up a bit, this is a judgment call per WP:MUSIC. WP:DRV seems solidly behind listing on AfD, so here it is. Just zis Guy you know? 11:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't see him meeting any criteria per WP:MUSIC. --Porqin 12:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As above, and the author needs to verify the information, anyway. ben 12:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Porqin. If there's something that qualifies him under WP:MUSIC I don't see it. Fan-1967 13:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This was speedy deleted again by kingboyk, but since the speedy was already contested, we should give this a few days. Friday (talk) 15:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I found several reviews online of his records from independant-looking sources. He's now doing a large tour with Manowar (band) and Rhapsody (band). (see article talk page). I don't like this neoclassical stuff myself and it's not all that popular, but this guy seems legit to me. I'm working on getting some sources and better info worked into the article. Friday (talk) 15:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Will reconsider if Friday's material is convincing. 15:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dpbsmith (talk • contribs) .[reply]
Delete with same caveat as Dpbsmith. --kingboyk 15:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC) P.S. This is imho a valid speedy deletion candidate under CSD A7. If somebody wishes to challenge the speedy deletion, such a challenge surely ought to be coupled with at least a claim of notability? All it claims is that he is an "American electric guitarist and composer". He's a member of two redlinked bands. The article says who he is influenced by but makes no claim that he is an influence on anyone else of any note. That said, I accept the reversal of my deletion; ~~simply because~~ I'm not one to wheel war or go against the community. (Edited. --kingboyk 15:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
Comment: Sorry, I don't normally go around undoing people's closures. As a general rule I have no problem with early closure if consensus seems clear. However since this was already contested and there do appear to be sources (just not worked into the article yet), it seems reasonable to give it a few days. Friday (talk) 15:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I'm fine with that. --kingboyk 15:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for now. Tom Hess is a music teacher looking for students. Which makes this article an ad, and we're not Craigslist. ~ trialsanderrors 18:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm crazy, but does being a teacher automatically make the article an advert? He's also got a few records, and he's touring Europe. I'm not saying he's obviously of encyclopedic significance, he appears to be in that gray area, but let's not hold his teaching against him, eh? Robert Fripp teaches too. Friday (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If one of the first things I found googling for Robert Fripp was an article saying "I'm looking for guitar students", I'd be worried. In any case, if there are safeguards in place that this article doesn't return to gush status 24 hours after the AfD ends the closing admin can discount my vote too. ~ trialsanderrors 18:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Reiterate Delete (Note: Don't count twice) Nothing changed from last round. CD Baby links and gush reviews establish Non-Notability. ~ trialsanderrors 08:16, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep only if claims of notability (tours etc) are added to the article. Otherwise, the closing admin can discount my vote. Themindset 18:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't see why there is a huge argument about this article, it says in WP: Music that a musicians notable if he/she "Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country,[1] reported in notable and verifiable sources." Evidenceat[[1]], [[2]], and [[3]]. How about also being in a band with Joe Stump, a notable electric guitarist. Does that count for anything? Justinmeister 18:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Seems like the HellHole, oops HolyHell entry redirects to Tom Hess. Not sure why that's the case. He doesn't even seem to be the primary member. ~ trialsanderrors 19:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - For what it's worth, there'd been a seperate article on HolyHell, but Zoe speedy deleted it for not being significant enough. Since this guy has two major bands, Hess and HolyHell, it seems sensible to me for him to have an article. If seperate articles on the specific bands are also warranted, so be it. Friday (talk) 19:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'm far from convinced of TH's notability (2 self-released CD's?), and I'm also far from convinced that opening slots count towards notability, but if the tour is the deciding factor, the article should probably be about HolyHell and Tom Hess should redirect to it. ~ trialsanderrors 20:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - Doesn't being part of a notable band warrant it's own article about that person? I mean, a guy like Jeff Campitelli has done nothing notable except being part of Joe Satriani's band. This warrants him his own article. shouldn't this 'spin off' effect apply as well to Tom Hess, if his band Holyhell is deemed notable? Justinmeister 21:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        Afaict, they aren't. And also afaict the "better covered in the main article" standard applies to band members who have no notability of their own. ~ trialsanderrors 21:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        How do you pick and choose which band members are anymore notable than the others than? Each member is an integral part. Especially in bands without a member that stands out from the rest (as opposed to Van Halen, Cream, Led Zeppelin etc.) By that logic, most articles about bass players and drummers should be "better covered in the main article". Is it fair to discriminate against bands that aren't well known by only allowing one article for the whole band as opposed to articles for all the members. Why does Frank Bello's article exist? Justinmeister 07:22, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The article as it stands right now does mention the european tour, so some folks might call that good enough to satisfy WP:MUSIC. Unfortunately, I'm off on vacation for several days starting tomorrow, so I probably won't have much time to put in additional info before the Afd ends. Friday (talk) 19:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks like an semi-ad for a non-notable person trying to hide as a short stub article. — MrDolomite | Talk 03:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:MUSIC, advertising. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep since he is touring Europe. That is one of the criteria in WP:MUSIC. --Aguerriero (talk) 04:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as he meets WP:Music as I see it (tours europe, bandmate of notable musician, part of independant metal lable run by notable band) Justinmeister 07:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm curious why people are still saying he fails WP:MUSIC - the European tour seems to qualify. Friday (talk) 02:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Justinmeister. Bucketsofg✐ 02:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:Music because of his tours. Dionyseus 06:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: HolyHell has been deleted a couple of days ago, which should perhaps not have happened since they meet the criterion "international tour", albeit as merely a support act. Anyway, that's not relevant here; apart from this criterion, Tom Hess himself probably failes WP:MUSIC. Encyclopaedia Metallum has an entry on his band "Hess", though. --Thunderhead 14:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually recommending delete, after evaluating what I said above. --Thunderhead 10:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I found a snippet mentioning his band Hess at RockReport.be] Justinmeister 17:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The entity touring is HolyHell, not Tom Hess. If it is felt that a HolyHell article has been improperly deleted that can be taken up separately. I would note that Pollstar has not found it necessary to have either HolyHell or Tom Hess entries for past or current tour information. - David Oberst 22:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Friday, should be included based upon touring information. RFerreira 07:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Tour is possibly a reason for an article on the band, but not for a page on this individual. Zaxem 09:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:MUSIC. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I've restored HolyHell since a few people here indicated it might be a good idea. Maybe it's appropriate to turn Tom Hess into a redirect there if his other projects aren't considered significant enough, but doing such does not require deletion of this. Friday (talk) 14:31, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete while I agree the guy is non notable, that should not be the criteria for deletion here. What SHOULD be the criteria is WP:MUSIC since he is a musician. As he fails our guidelines for inclusion, he should be deleted. ALKIVAR™ 20:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.