Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Kühnhackl

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CTJF83 chat 19:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Kühnhackl

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This hockey player is not notable. Coycan (talk) 20:15, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep — He has played matches in the top 2 divisions in Germany and he has been drafted by a NHL team. Kingjeff (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Kingjeff. Grsz 11 23:27, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – With reference to WP:NHOCKEY, it all boils down to whether or not the Deutsche Eishockey Liga (DEL) is considered to be a “top professional league” whereby playing just a single game would presume notability; or if DEL is considered to be a “fully professional minor league” whereby 100 games played are required before notability is presumed. I am leaning to believe that DEL is a European minor league, with play at a level below the Elitserien, SM-liiga, and Kontinental Hockey League, but I could be persuaded otherwise with the right argument. Dolovis (talk) 02:26, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure the DEL isn't at the level of those leagues, but it is a fully professional league, and the top one in Germany - which is a top 10 country in the IIHF rankings. Grsz 11 03:07, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The DEL is a major top level national league. One of the higher level leagues in Europe, actually. This is only a Yahoo! answers answer, but the list is quite accurate in my experience. On that basis alone, this is a keep for me. Reso lute 03:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The DEL is a top level national league. The only hesitation I would have would be if he were playing in it as a junior. However, since its such a well written article I have leaned towards keep. -DJSasso (talk) 12:56, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – As the top league in Germany it operates with a talent level well below the AHL. If it is a “top professional league” then the listed top leagues at WP:NHOCKEY should be edited to include Deutsche Eishockey Liga. If it isn't, then 4 games played is 96 games short. Dolovis (talk) 13:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The leagues listed at NHOCKEY are examples, and are not meant to be an exhaustive list. Sometimes you just have to use common sense. Reso lute 14:41, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If it helps, we've traditionally considered the top seven European leagues as passing that bar. Or, if you prefer, the leagues that are invited to participate in the IIHF's Champions Hockey League. Reso lute 14:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it says "Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league such as the National Hockey League, World Hockey Association, Elitserien, SM-liiga, or Kontinental Hockey League;" (emphasis mine). This list isn't complete, they are examples. Resolute is correct, common sense comes into play here. -DJSasso (talk) 15:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With respect, DJSasso, I am seeking a consensus on whether or not the DEL should be considered "such as" the listed top leagues. Resolute's comment is more helpful, but it still leaves the question as to what the "top seven" Euro leagues are. Perhaps we should start a discussion on this question in another forum so that any ambiguity is removed for future notability challenges? Dolovis (talk) 18:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to take the discussion to the project page since this isn't the place for such discussions. However, I would note that NHOCKEY isn't the be all end all of notability, as it says at the top of the page neither meeting or not meeting it are grounds for deletion or keeping. They are just a guide for when sources are likely to exist. Every league isn't listed because then there are always more and more leagues that people want to try and add. It is vague on purpose to imply that the lines are fuzzy. Finding sources is what is important per WP:GNG. -DJSasso (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- -- Cirt (talk) 06:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Snow Keep. Per above keeps.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:56, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.