Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trooper Clerks (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:30, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trooper Clerks

AfDs for this article:

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This fan film appears to fail WP: NFILM. First nomination resulted in redirect/merge. It was recreated and the second nomination ended in no consensus. It has been tagged for notability since 2017.

My hope is that this has either notability proven so the tag can be removed, or decided that it isn't notable and should be deleted. DonaldD23 talk to me 18:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Film, and United States of America. DonaldD23 talk to me 18:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I stand by the opinion I had voiced in the preceding deletion discussion not so long ago: Several secondary sources have been listed there, I think together they provide enough coverage that the topic is notable. In my view, the notability tag should be removed. Do I need to re-list the sources? Daranios (talk) 18:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I commented in the last nomination as well. I'm not seeing notability for wikipedia. The PhD thesis, ok, but that's about all there is. A few small book mentions and the minor award help, but I don't think it's at GNG or FILM. Oaktree b (talk) 03:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The film award article uses the same PhD thesis here as a source, so I'm not seeing notability there either. Still not seeing GNG or any other acronym for the various notability criteria we could use here either... Oaktree b (talk) 03:54, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Clerks (film). I checked the sources mentioned by Daranios in the prior AfD, I couldn't access one (paywalled google book displays blank), the others seem to fail WP:SIGCOV. As such I don't think this is notable enough for a stand-alone entry per WP:GNG. But this is certainly worth mentioning at Clerks (film), where currently it is not mentioned at all. Merge should solve all the problems. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Clerks (film). A poorly sourced article which does not pass the notability standards, IMO.

139.190.236.109 (talk) 18:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The book references are non-SIGCOV mentions (this has only three results, one of which is the index. Otherwise, this film is mentioned in two pages (p468 and p469) while listing examples, with some plot info and potentially some analysis. It probably isn't SIGCOV but I might be wrong) and personally to me the fan award is minor and don't count towards WP:GNG or WP:NFILM criteria 1 or 2 though I can see why others would disagree. Otherwise there are two PHD essays. This is likely WP:RS (it probably meets supervised by recognized specialists in the field) and is borderline WP:SIGCOV, with one paragraph and an additional bullet list that goes into some analysis instead of being plot-only. I can't access the full version of the other essay, I had a search at The Wikipedia Library and for some reason didn't find it. Overall, if the other PHD essay is WP:SIGCOV (ping me if anyone could access it), notability seems to be borderline. If it is the case that the other PHD essay is also brief, I am at merge to Clerks (film), which is an WP:ATD preferable than outright deletion. VickKiang (talk) 23:15, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep we've got one source that seems clearly RS, and others that are inaccessible, but WP:PAYWALL makes it clear that we can't consider those "lesser" sources just because we cannot access them. Feel free to ping me if we get access and nothing is SIGCOV. Jclemens (talk) 02:13, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:42, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Young, Clive (2008). Homemade Hollywood: Fans Behind the Camera. New York: Continuum International Publishing Group. pp. 171–172. ISBN 978-0-8264-2922-3. Retrieved 2023-01-22 – via Internet Archive.
  The book notes: "Allen settled in on spoofing the work of slacker-film director—and noted Star Wars enthusiast—Kevin Smith, whose breakthrough came with the 1994 indie classic Clerks. The result was Trooper Clerks, a shot-for-shot remake of the Smith film's trailer, featuring stormtroopers looking after a convenience store on the Death Star. The flick painstakingly re-created the cheap, grungy look of the original film, but was no shoddy endeavor. ... Unsurprisingly, the flick was very popular with Smith's legion of fans; when Allen sent a copy—and a prop helmet—to Smith's production company, ViewAskew, the faux trailer was quickly posted on one of the organization's websites. ... Instead, he put his computer skills to work, creating a Flash-animated Trooper Clerks cartoon. The new short was brilliant, pairing up the creations of Lucas and Smith deceptive ease, as the titular clerks schemed to get the blueprints of the Death Star into rebel hands, thus ensuring, through twisted logic, that they wouldn't be fired from their convenience store jobs on the Empire's space station."
2. Pérez-Gómez, Miguel Ángel (2015). "El fan film: paradigma de la cultura participativa en el entorno de los new media" [The fan film: paradigm of participatory culture in the environment of the new media] (in Spanish). University of Seville. pp. 548–549. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
  The doctoral thesis notes: "Cortometraje ganador en la categoría de Mejor Animación. Parodia en la que personajes de la saga galáctica emulan conversaciones de Clerks (1994), de Kevin Smith, pero discutiendo sobre la filmografía de este realizador. Por un lado dos Stormtroopers simulan ser unos dependientes dentro de la Estrella de la muerte y por otro, Darth Maul y el emperador simulan ser Jay y Silent Bob, dos personajes del universo fílmico de Kevin Smith, dos jóvenes que están todo el día sin hacer nada y vendiendo droga.
  From Google Translate: "Winning short film in the Best Animation category. Parody in which characters from the galactic saga emulate conversations from Clerks (1994), by Kevin Smith, but discussing the filmography of this director. On the one hand, two Stormtroopers pretend to be dependents inside the Death Star and on the other, Darth Maul and the Emperor pretend to be Jay and Silent Bob, two characters from Kevin Smith's film universe, two young people who spend all day doing nothing. nothing and selling drugs."
3. Jenkins, Henry (2006) [2001]. "Quentin Tarantino's Star Wars?: Digital Cinema, Media Convergence, and Participatory Culture". In Durham, Meenakshi Gigi; Kellner, Douglas M. (eds.). Media and Cultural Studies: Keyworks. Malden, Massachusetts: Blackwell Publishing. p. 572. ISBN 978-1-4051-3258-9. Retrieved 2023-01-22 – via Google Books.
  The book notes: "Jeff Allen, a 27-year-old "HTML monkey" for an Atlanta-based internet company, for example, made Trooperclerks, a spoof of the trailer for Clerks, which deals with the drab routine confronted by the stormtroopers who work in convenience stores and video rental outlets onboard the Death Star. The short spoof, which was immediately embraced and promoted by Kevin Smith's View Askew, was later followed by a half-hour animated film based on the same premise, made in response to the news that Clerks was being adapted into an animated network series. Allen's focus on Clerks came only after he considered and rejected the thought of doing a Star Wars parody based on Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs."
4. Ochwat, John (1999-05-14). "May the Force of Parody Be With You". The Oklahoman. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
  The article notes: "These parodies are funny and weird, and they mesh "Star Wars" with odd bits of our culture. The first trailer is 90 seconds of dementia that will make more sense if you've seen the 1994 movie "Clerks." But let's let the narrator tell the story: ... The movie "Clerks" featured two slacker convenience store clerks. "Trooper Clerks" sets the convenience store on the Death Star. Darth Vader is checking expiration dates on quarts of milk, a biker scout complains, "What do you mean there's no ice? You mean I gotta drink this coffee hot?" All the while, the duo presses on in Imperial slacking tradition. ... The next shot is of Greedo, the bounty hunter, getting blasted from across the counter. Very weird. Pretty funny."
5. Lee, Elizabeth (1999-05-28). "May the Farce be with you: 'Star Wars' parodies bloom". Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
  The article notes: "They've gleefully embraced the Dark Side of the Force with spoofs like "Trooper Clerks," a 90-second re-creation of the trailer to the film "Clerks," with imperial storm troopers behind the counter, and ... Allen's "Trooper Clerks," shot mostly in Athens, hit the Web late last year. Troopers working the convenience store play hockey with a mousebot in the halls of the Death Star, banter suggestively with C-3PO and complain about their customers -- just as the counter jockeys do in Kevin Smith's "Clerks." Smith's View Askew Productions now links to Allen's video from its Web site."
6. Less significant coverage:
  1. Rose, Lisa (1999-05-16). "Use the mouse, Luke: The Top 10 "Star Wars" Web sites". The Star-Ledger. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
    The article notes: "Echostation ... Look for New Jersey filmmaker Kevin Smith's raunchy parody, "Trooper Clerks," in the multimedia section."
  2. Cohen, Stacey Cara (1999-05-14). "Already, hate-mongers ganging up 'Phantom'". Daily Herald. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
    The article notes: "Trooper Clerks," at www.studiocreations.com/trooperclerks, places stormtroopers in a trailer duplicating Kevin Smith's film "Clerks.""
  3. "Southern Culture". Orlando Sentinel. 1999-05-07. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
    The article notes: "The Trooper Clerks Web site provides a fun way to pass the time while waiting for the Star Wars sequel to hit movie theaters May 19.The one-and-a-half minute trailer shows stormtroopers as store clerks in a sendoff of the popular movie."
  4. Power, Ed (2002-08-27). "Want to clout a celebrity? Then climb aboard the Net surfer; Have keyboard will travel: the virtual world of the Internet offers an entertaining way to get away from it all at virtually no cost". The Irish Times. ProQuest 309511022.
    The article notes: "Best then to trot along to www.shockwave.com, an engaging bells'n'whistles treasure-trove showcasing the powerful and flexible shockwave media player. An abundance of games and quirky animated shorts ("Trooper Clerks", the delirious Star Wars-Kevin Smith pastiche Trooper Clerks is a highlight) vie for your attention."
  5. Botwin, Michele (1999-04-24). "Imitation Is Silliest Form of Flattery". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 2023-01-22. Retrieved 2023-01-22.
    The article notes: "“Trooper Clerks"--A black-and-white parody of Kevin Smith’s “Clerks,” complete with storm troopers as clerks."
  6. Wolk, Douglas (August 1999). "Starry Eyes". CMJ New Music Monthly. p. 75. Retrieved 2023-01-22 – via Google Books.
    The article notes: "It's got a counterpart of sorts in Trooper Clerks (www.studiocreations.com/trooperclerks), a remake of the trailer for Kevin Smith's Clerks starring the big scary guys in white body armor."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Trooper Clerks to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 11:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per the reliable sources coverage idenified above particularly the phd thesis that shows a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view Atlantic306 (talk) 00:06, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.