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January 21

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just another WoW-vandalism page that was missed when most of the vandal pages and related pages were deleted some time ago. --Azer Red Si? 22:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Click the link. The page has been deleted and protected from recreation.--Azer Red Si? 22:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oopsies. I thought it had been overturned at DRV, apparently it was not. -Amark moo! 23:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:CopyrightByWikimedia

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:CopyrightByWikimedia to Category:Images copyrighted By Wikimedia Foundation

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Category:Disaster movies

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The result of the debate was withdrawn. the wub "?!" 07:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Disaster movies to Category:Disaster films
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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

delete, up to 90% of the population of some Latin American countries is mestizo. This category is going to be ridiculously large, and it will never be complete. Mixcoatl 22:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Churches in Alberta

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The result of the discussion was: keep. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Churches in Alberta (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

"Category" consists of one subcategory, which contains only one church SUBWAYguy 21:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Villages in Silesia

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Villages in Silesia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

The whole collection of subcategories of Category:Silesia created by LUCPOL (talk · contribs), such as category:Universities and colleges in Silesia must be investigated for deletion. The point is that "Silesia" is a historical region, now split beween Poland and Czechia. I am strongly against having anynhing but history-related subcategories for such things. Whate else? Shall we create Category:Universities in Siberia? category:Towns in Tanganyika? Category:Mountains in Holy Roman Empire? `'mikka 21:07, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Without exaggeration. Silesia is region such how Bavaria, Bohemia or Chechnya etc. This category is OK. PS. I created the part of subcategories, different also created: Category:Dukes of Silesia, Category:Natives of Silesia, Category:Lower Silesian Voivodeship etc. LUCPOL 21:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Your cited examples don't back up this claim, that it is a reasonable use "...for recognizable ... areas subsumed within the boundaries a modern state, even without current status or central-government-imposed borders." Your examples are being used for historical topics, topics for which it would be an anachronistic to use present day names etc. This is not what is happening with this, and the other, 'Silesia' categories. This is an attempt to force modern-day Polish entities through a Silesian-shaped hole.
Xdamrtalk 15:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and Sumahoy. Anachronistic territorial categorisations should be strenuously avoided unless there is compelling justification. No such reasons have been presented here.
Xdamrtalk 15:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:American conservatives

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The result of the discussion was: delete first, merge the second. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Category:American conservatives (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Upmerge Category:American constitutionalists to Category:American people by political orientation

Per discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 19#Category:American liberals, as something of a counterpart, I nominate Category:American conservatives.

'Conservative' (like 'Liberal') is a vague term, encompassing a wide range of opinions over a wide range of topics—topics such as social issues, economics, personal morality, abortion, etc, etc. Both 'Liberal' and 'Conservative' are simply too imprecise to cover such a multiplicity of areas. If we want to categorise by view/outlook (which it seems that we are happy to do—see CFD (11/16) then it is far better to follow the practice within the parent category, Category:American people by political orientation, where we have specific categories for American socialists, American pacifists, American libertarians, etc.

Xdamrtalk 21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete/Merge per nom --Xdamrtalk 21:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete/merge per nom; "conservative," like "liberal," is (to quote myself regarding the other CFD) "incapable of precise, objective definition and meaningless without cultural/historical context and explanation. The meaning of the term has shifted too much over its centuries of usage and has too much breadth for this to accomplish anything informative." Anything that requires explanation to make sense, and to prevent equivocating unlike things, is not proper material for a category. Postdlf 21:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete/merge per nom. In addition to the varieties of contempirary conservatism, these terms havce changed meaning over time. As one example of the confusion, many of those who call themseves "conservatives" advocate economic policies which, 100 years ago, would have been called "liberal" (minimal trade barriers etc, minimal state regulation). Since these categories don't have historical time limts, the categories become unworkable; someone accurately described as "conservative" in 1907 would probably disagree vehemently with somone so described in 2007. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete if the liberal category is also deleted/Keep if opposite. Veracious Rey tcr 03:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per various precedents like the liberal category. This invokes POV, OR, and speculation. Wryspy 04:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete American conservatives for same reasons that American liberals should be deleted; altho AmCons is slightly less vague than AmLibs, it's only slightly, and still presents problems of having to be defined before it's understood. --lquilter 00:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, whether or not Category:American liberals is deleted. Two wrongs doesn't make one right.--Per Abrahamsen 01:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all both this and its liberal counterpart. Remember that many people's political beliefs change over time. It's unfair and inaccurate to categorize them so broadly. Lovelac7 03:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete both, vague. CRGreathouse (t | c) 03:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is this 'delete both conservative and liberals' or 'delete both conservatives and constitutionalists'?
Xdamrtalk 20:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
All. Lovelac7 02:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That was very unclear of me... I'm surprised I wrote that. I meant "delete conservatives and liberals". I would vote to delete either even if the other vote failed, per Per Abrahamsen. I'm not convinced that American Constitutionalists is a good idea for a category, but I'll forgo a vote either way due to uncertainty. CRGreathouse (t | c) 03:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete category. Not very accurate. Not very useful. Nerdland 06:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Rip-offs of Gimmick!

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Rip-offs of Gimmick! (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Not only does there not need to be categories of "rip-offs", but this one has no basis whatsoever that the articles included in the category reflect the category itself. The S 20:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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CNBC categories

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The result of the discussion was: merge. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

delete and merge - WP:OC --Vs22 20:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Locales in Andorra

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The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Locales in Andorra to Category:Settlements in Andorra

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Category:Sporty museums

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The result of the debate was deleted. the wub "?!" 19:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Sporty museums (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Created to house International_Museum_of_the_fly_fishing_Stanislao_Kuckiewicz which I've recategorised into Category:Sports museums. This category now has no articles and also no parent category or subcategories. Random Passer-by 18:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Sagas of Iceland

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Sagas of Iceland (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete. I can't even undestand what it means. Does it refer to sagas written in Iceland? Most of them were, and in that case, Icelandic sagas would be a better name. Does it mean sagas dealing with Icelandic matter? Obviously not, since, for instance Hrólfs saga kraka (which deals with a Danish king), Yngliga saga (about lengendary kings of Sweden) and many others are listed here. We already have all the categories we need (especially Category:Sagas, where most of the articles of the category could me moved. Sigo 16:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Members of the Welsh Assembly

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The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Members of the Welsh Assembly to Category:Members of the National Assembly for Wales

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Category:Hairspray actors

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Hairspray actors (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete - per overly broad category drawing from multiple sources, c.f. Batman actors and Wicked actors. Otto4711 15:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tim! This is not a TV series. It is a collection of actors who appeared in the film and theatrical productions. Both genre have a long standing consensus against categories like this. -- Samuel Wantman 23:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, or at least Rename to Category:Night Stalker cast members. -- Prove It (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Uperge into Category:Frölunda HC players, the list of drafted Frölunda HC players is good enough. We don't need a category for every single list article. -- Prove It (talk) 15:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, contains only Jeff Dunham, and unlikely to grow. -- Prove It (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- Only one page mentioned--SUIT42 19:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result of the discussion was: delete, list already present so no information lost. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, The list in the John Hobbs Medal article will do. -- Prove It (talk) 14:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Award recipient categories should be used only for awards that define the recipient (e.g., "Nobel laureates), lest they lead to category cruft clutter for multi-award-winners. --lquilter 17:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Out of interest, does this view extend toward decorations/orders as issued by the state (not awards though)? Would you regard Category:Recipients of the Victoria Cross as being an example of 'cruft'? cf. debate on WP:ODM talk page.
Xdamrtalk 20:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Victoria Cross is the top award in its field and in most cases it is the main reason why holders have an article. A better comparison would be with lower military decorations, and I would say that they should not have categories. Honbicot 17:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep This is a serious award, one which deserves far more respect than Category:Australian Big Brother Award Winners and the like. On this ground I prefer that it be kept. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether categorisation is the best thing for an award which has only been bestowed on 9+ recipients. On the whole though, I incline towards keeping it, albeit weakly.
Xdamrtalk 23:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I said "cruft", which is unduly and inappropriately contemptuous. "Clutter" would be better & I've changed it above.
Xdamr, I'm not familiar enough with the ODMs by state awards to know how they're applied or how many winners there are, or what sorts of people get them, and so on.
My concern for award-winner cats in general (and maybe it applies to ODMs-by-states) is that well-known people can receive many awards of various sorts. Scientists, actors, philanthropists, artists, and so on can get dozens, scores, of awards. I am incredibly inclusionist on articles for awards, but creating categories for the winners of individual awards seems of little value and actually, actively, confusing to people.
  1. Browsing the winners could as easily be accomplished through lists on the award page, or separate lists if big enough. More easily, actually, because oftentimes not all winners of a particular award will have their own articles, thus rendering the category incomplete.
  2. Unlike the list, you can't tell that a category incomplete; and the name of the category "X award winners" suggests completeness more than some kinds of category names (e.g., "Churches of England"). With lists it's much more obvious if they're incomplete. So categories of award-winners are, I feel, confusing if not deceptive. --lquilter 00:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry too much about 'cruft', I' didn't mind it too much :)
Really I was just wondering if you made a distinction between private (or state) awards/prizes and state decorations. An award is an award—it may be a worthwhile one such as the Nobel prize, or it may be that you have won 'Big Brother' or something equally trivial. State decorations on the other hand, especially those for bravery/military service, don't tend to be given out for no reason. With these sort of decorations, receiving them becomes more of a biographical detail rather than something intrinsically bound up with the decoration itself; that being the case I regard categorisation as being reasonable. Further, with recipients typically running into the hundreds/thousands, it would be tricky to maintain as an article.
Xdamrtalk 01:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On a side note, since it came up, I think it is also worth considering nominating Category:Australian Big Brother Award Winners for deletion for the same reasons this category is up for deletion. If anyone seconds that notion, feel free to cfd it and I'll probably support the nomination. Dugwiki 17:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Providing the award is well known and reputable I don't think it matters who awards it. The question is whether or not it is the leading award in its field and therefore a career defining achievement. Honbicot 17:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I encourage you, Dugwiki, to go for that CFD nomination, and I will vote for its deletion. --lquilter 17:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Days of our Lives actors

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The result of the discussion was: rename, insufficient consensus for deletion. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Days of our Lives actors to Category:Days of our Lives cast members
  • For a soap opera a cast list in the article would be untenable. It would amount to thousands of names and completely overwhelm the article. A separate "list of" is better but still problematic. Otto4711 20:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are probably right, in which case perhaps some sort of notability test needs to be derived for soap operas, or, as you suggest, a 'List of ...'. Either way though, I remain unconvinced that categories are the answer.
Xdamrtalk 20:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This would be much better as a list, split off from the main article. A list can add information that a category cannot, such as the years the actor was part of the cast, the character played, a picture, etc... --Samuel Wantman 21:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Gilmore Girls actors

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The result of the discussion was: ditto. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Gilmore Girls actors to Category:Gilmore Girls cast members

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Category:Will & Grace actors

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The result of the discussion was: ditto. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Will & Grace actors to Category:Will & Grace cast members

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Category:Tamil filmmakers

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The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Tamil filmmakers to Category:Tamil film directors

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, due to subjective inclusion criteria, who is a champion? -- Prove It (talk) 06:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Carmen Rasmusen songs, convention of Category:Songs by artist and discussion of June 9th. -- Prove It (talk) 06:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, contents already in Category:Babylon Bombs albums, Category:Babylon Bombs songs. -- Prove It (talk) 06:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the debate was SPEEDY DELETED, misplaced article. Postdlf 21:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, non-category in category space. -- Prove It (talk) 05:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the debate was already SPEEDY DELETED. Postdlf 21:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, not actually a category. -- Prove It (talk) 05:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Directors by company is no better than Models by company was. -- Prove It (talk) 03:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, three months old, and still only one article. -- Prove It (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Seether songs, convention of Songs by artist. -- Prove It (talk) 03:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Philanthropic Organizations

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The result of the debate was SPEEDY DELETED. Postdlf 21:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Philanthropic Organizations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete, Already have Philanthropic organizations, and the cat is empty. Steve (Slf67) talk 03:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Nickel Creek members, convention of Category:Musicians by band. -- Prove It (talk) 03:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge / Redirect into Category:Companies of India, convention of Category:Companies by country. -- Prove It (talk) 02:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

London Transport

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. >Radiant< 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename all, apparently Wikipedia:WikiProject Underground changed its name to Wikipedia:WikiProject London Transport. -- Prove It (talk) 02:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!" 19:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:PlayStation 2 games, convention of Category:Games on Sony platforms. -- Prove It (talk) 01:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.